David,
Sorry to see your baby get such a hard spanking on its po-po. Let that be a lesson to behave better!
Realize your insurance company is State Farm but isn't the insurance company of the person that rear ended you responsible for the repair and satisfaction to your car? That is what is normally done and if your pain has not subsided they may feel 'more responsible' to restore your car to its prior condition.
Then your baby will smile and laugh again....
Good Luck
Tobias MB
4 MBs

I always figured that it was the job of the insurance companies to piss us off by not paying for any thing? Seriously, I figured my insurance company (State Farm) would be more motivated to see me happy then General Insurance (their ins. co) would be. I am hoping that my 15 years of premiums and the condition of the car and my uncontrollable crying will play some factor in the decision process.

Haasman, if I could have the name and number of your state farm friend that would be great.

Thanks everyone.

David

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Update

Gotta love insurance companies. The adjuster went out to see my car and decided that the company would offer me $3300 for my car and call it a day. I am speechless. How do you respond to such a insane offer? A baseball bat comes to mind. Anyway, Monday it goes to the "total loss" department and that is who I have to present my case too. This should be fun.

Viva la 190.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

David,

You have elected to go through your own insurance company instead of the insurer of the person that hit you. Why. It is quicker as State Farm will pay you the value of the car minus your deductible. If liability in this accident is clear, and it should be in a rear end accident they will subrogate against the other company. Be sure that what ever the outcome with State farm that you write them and remind them to collect your deductible as part of their subrogation efforts. Hey, $500 is $500 isn't it. They should pay that to you, and they will before they keep the rest. State Farm is good about that unless you have an adjuster that is new.

We all realize that most cars can be repaired even when its not economiclly feasible - that''s when the car is declared a "total from an economic standpoint. if you sued the person that hit you - all they would be liable for would be the "fair market value" of the car. Not all the blood, sweat and tear you put into it to maintain it. Fair - no but that is what the law is.

The same will apply to our own policies. Now- take a look at your policy. It is a contract. State Farm owes you the costs to repair the car or pay the fair market value of the vehicle, which ever is less. I don't know your mileage but you can look up the value of your car with the given mileage so you know if the adjuster is off.

Now if you can do some of the work yourself itself then perhaps you can agree to the amount of the value of the car as the repair costs and keep the car without having it declared a "total " as it may affect the ability to register it in Texas. Some state won't allow a car that is "totaled to be repaired and registered in their state. Sugest you contact Department of motor vehicles and explaint the situation. If that is not a problem then SF may pay you the book value of the car but let you buy it back as salvage.

Good luck.

David,
Again since you still have some pain from the rear hit, then the Explorer's ins, co, may feel more obligated to 'work out' some compensation to be rid of the claim. Remember, once you sign that check, you can not go back and file for more compensation,
medical or vehicle damage.
I had my own ins carrier years ago want to pay to repair my car but to hold back the deductible and said they would pay, IF they got it from the at fault party ins. co,. Told them to stuff it and took the other party to small claims court and got all I asked for.
Funny part was they counter-sued me so my ins. co. then had to provide me a lawyer at no cost. Screw them, that is why we pay high rates!
If you look into the classifieds in the MBCA magazine, The Star, there are quite a few 16V cars listed, a good source for comparing $$. Also look in the DuPont Registry for high $$.
Another thing, if you buy your own car back from the ins. co. then usually the title doesn't get transferred so you still retain ownership with a clear title....a good thing!

Good luck,
Tobias MB
4 MBs

I actually filed with both companies. I started with mine since a few people told me (and it made sense to me as well) that my company would be more motivated to make me happy than the fly by night Insurance co that the people who rear ended me have. They have one of those companies that insure the uninsurable for liability only for registration purposes.

I am still trying to figure out what fair market value is. I have been told that they will try and find the market value for my local area. Not sure if that is good or bad. I live in TX and people drive trucks/SUV’s or American cars. I do not see many MB’s around much less a 16V. I went to the NADA www site and a 87 16V with 120k on the odo is worth $7700 on the high end which is what I think mine is worth given all the work and upgrades. What dark smelly hole SF pulled the $3300 from I have no idea. I am guessing that there are 3 options. They are valuing it as a regular 190E, they are discounting it because it is a gray market or they are smoking crack and just want to hose me. My argument for the gray market is if they are going to charge me the same rate as a US spec car then they damn well better compensate me as a US spec car also. Cannot have your cake and eat it too. If I can get them to value the car at $8k I will be in the clear.

Given the money I have invested in this car and the cost of replacement vehicles I figure I have 2 options. If SF comes up with a reasonable offer to fix the car I will accept that. If they do not, then they can stuff their offer, I will fix the car out of pocket and then throw the dice in small claims. I think given the NADA value, and classified ads I have found, making a case for a $5000 small claim settlement seems like a viable option. They will not under any circumstances get the title for my car. It simply is not an option. I’ll know more on Monday when I speak to these pencil neck geeks. I just need to remember that they are not too bright and treat them with respect.

I will negotiate with both insurance co’s and see who offers me the best deal. We will

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

You touched the ''grey market issue''
unless the car was specifically insured for its superior value, the insurance co. will normally pay for the value of a ligit US car.
They also do not attach any sentimental feeling or value for the car.
If the normally available 190 is worth 7,500. a grey market car has no more value for them. Sorry.

Another thought to keep in mind: Your fight is not really with either insurance company. Your fight is with the person that hit you and the person that owns the car that hit you. Might not be one in the same. May be a bank. You can sue all of them. Directly, for the full price of the repairs. They have to fix it or replace it. Tell them you are going to take their house and first-born child if need be. Get independent appraisal of the value of your car before the hit. Use those Star mag ads and Hemmings ads to back it up. A jury may well think that next time it could be them getting robbed by the insurance company. Fact is, it's probably gonna cost you a couple grand no matter what you do, so get what you want for your money. I'm gonna re-read my Dante. See if he had a place for insurance company types.

You are getting yourself worked up over this. Leave your emotions out of it so you deal with all your options logically. If someone you deal with on a professional basis cops an attitude from the outset then you will to. Do you expect the claim rep to tolerate a hot head or give him a little benefit. Keep it on a professional basis dealing with facts.

1. Agree or disagree that under the law, all you are owed by the person who hit you, is the cost to put the vehicle in its preloss condition (i.e. cost of repairs) or the fair market value - which ever is less.

2. Some states allow you to recover what is called rental value (what it would cost to rent a similar car for the reasonable period of repairs). Some states allow you to recover this cost even if you have another car to use and do not actually rent a car.

3. You can sue the driver of the car and the owner (if it is someone else) provided the car was used with their knowledge and consent. IT IS NOT THE BANK- DO NOT SUE THEM OR YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE BANK SEEKING ATTORNEYS FEES FOR A FRIVOLOUS SUIT AGAINTS THEM. KEEP IT TO THE DRIVER AND REGISTERED OWNER..

4. Get written repair estimates from a cople reputable shops. State Farm may have done one for you already. They are usually prettty close on the estimates. All shops use the same price lists and labor charges. Remember these are just estimates. It is not uncommon for repair shops to contact the adjuster if they find additional repair items and as long as they documents it I have found that State Farm makes supplemental payments.

5. Get independant appraisal of your car. Based upon make , model, mileage and condition. State Farm or a judge will not care if it is grey market. You neither gain or lose value for that.By the way, you did not state your car's mileage.

6. It sounds that the adjuster based on an estimate has determined that the repairs exceed the value of the car. Ask to see the book or at least what book they used to determine the value i.e NADA, Kelly, etc. They may be right or wrong but they will usually explain how they arrived at that value. TAKE NOTES IN THE MEETING OR TAKE SOMEONE WITH YOU.

Keep in mind that with all the new cars on the road as a result of 2 yrs of rebates, the used market is soft. Get indie appraisal, check publications i.e. auto trader for cars for sale in your area. Don't expect SF or any judge to award the top dollar. State Farm used to have computer access to cars for sale (to assist in determing market value) in the area- ask the claim manager if they ran such a check since you submitted your claim, how many times and the results of each check.

7. If there is something truly unusual about your car - bring the documentation i.e. new stereo, new engine or transmission or replacement of all suspension components. Sentimental value doesn't count.

8. Decide whether to accept their offer with you keeping the car.

9. Option 2 - If you reject the offer you can sue the tortfeaser (driver and owner).

a. Find out the maximim amount you can sue for in small claims. You don't want to ask for $6,000, have the judge agree with you on who caused the accident but tell you all he can award you is $5,000 which is the jurisdictional limits of small claims in Florida.

b. In small claims you can usually represent yourself but the other drivers insurance company will have to hire an attorney (more costs to them) to represent him. It then becomes a business decision on whether to pay you a little more or pay the attorney and lose in court.

c. Write ask the other drivers insurer and ask for a copy of his policy including what is called the declarations page so that you know what his coverage is.

d. If you reach a settlement with the other company tell them you are signing a release for just the property portion of your claim. THIS IS CRITICAL. You want to perserve any claim you might have for personal injuries.

10. I checked the texas statues small claims statutes for you. It is chapter 28. Go to yahoo, type in texas small claims and it will take you there including a sample statement of claim. By the way the most you can sue for in small claims is $5,000 (which would include property value and the rental value or what is called loss of use. Also you have to sue in the county

sorry


you have to sue in the county where the defendent resides - thiat is the proper venue for the lawsuit.

Good luck.

davidmash,

I am suffering a similar issue. My son, who has "inherited" my 1986 190E 2.3-16, also a Euro model (I imported it new in 1986) was driving in the left lane on Interstate 91 approaching Hartford, Ct on his way home for the weekend from college. There was a big traffic tie-up due to a flipped truck ahead and my son was at a stand still. In this area there is an HOV lane, and a guy by himself was driving home, in the HOV lane to avoid the accident plugging up the normal lanes. As he approached where my son was he got a little nervous because the accident ahead was surrounded by flashing police lights, and he thought he might be spotted and get a ticket. So the guy crosses a marked "no man's land" median with drainage grates and the normal assortment of debris where no one drives, and, apparently was looking behind him when he just plowed into my son and the 190E. It is squashed pretty badly, and when you get the trunk open you will see the rear frame area is wrinkled pretty badly. Ours was. I will post a photo tomorrow.

We are going through the same bit. The repair is going to be about $9,000 to $12,000. The car is worth, to the insurance company, about $3k. I sent them $7,000 of receipts for the restoration this car has been through over the last two years. But I suspect I am in for a long fight. I am not a believer that someone can just smash your property and the insurance company gets to flip you off with a $3k offer. I told the adjuster I did not think the market value had anything to do with the decision and just because they have some means to present a story to limit their loss at my expense did not mean I would agree with that. I have contacted a lawyer and will negotiate through him.

My son is also having problems, now about a month later, with his neck and back. He is seeing the family doctor who basically told him he will be better in a few months, but that he will always have a sore neck when he sleeps or sits in an awkward position. He is 6'7" and there isn't a chair or a bed built to match his frame. So he will nearly always have a sore neck, and apparently, lower back.

Well, keep us informed. I will let you know how we end up. Good luck, Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Actually gray market status does affect the value of the vehicle. I have spoken with a professional appraiser who specializes in MB. He said that gray market will take 30% off the top for the value of the vehicle.

I am trying not to get worked up but I am emotionally involved. My options are limited by the money I have at my disposal to repair the vehicle and what I have at my disposal to buy a new one. That is why I have said there are only two options for me. Totaling the vehicle is not one of them. I loose less by fixing it my self then I would by taking $3300 and buying another car.

I have been told that they are basing the $3300 off of the local whole sale value of the car. I do not see how they can do this as there are no 190 16v for sale in TX (at least I have never seen one when I look in the paper or other auto publications) and I do not buy cars whole sale, I buy them retail.

If I keep the car and take their offer, I do not get the full $3300. I get the $3300 less the salvage value. I am guessing I’ll be lucky to end up with $2500 and the car.

I already have the insurance info on the other driver. All they carry are minimum liability. The Insurance co will not tell me amounts and the drivers family when I called claim no one speaks English so that is a dead end.

Given all this, I am going under the assumption that I will not be accepting anything from SF or the drivers insurance and end up in small claims court suing for $5000 and taking a bath for the rest. I feel I have evidence that their low ball value of the car is ludicrous but the previous experiences I have had with insurance companies do not give me a great deal of hope in increasing their opinion of the car value by close to $5000.

I will try but I do not hold much faith.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

There is some great input on your situation here, especially from git0. This is going to take some time in order to get what you are looking for but with patience it can be done. Your car looks like it was in exceptional condition so the standard valuation process should be out the window. Compile a file with all your receipts and pictures of the car. My guess is that the replacement value would be over the $8k that you are looking for.

Expect the insurance company to low ball you, they have to protect their own interests. Do not accept their offers and continue to persist. Make sure that you are not physically hurt from the accident. Let them know that you are seeing a doctor regarding potential injury from the accident. Don't lie about injuries but this can sometimes help move the process along.

The bottom line is that your car is worth what it costs to replace. Whatever value they come up with for the car you have to add the cost of replacing the spoiler, etc..

Include figures for your time invested in the situation. Odds are you won't receive this money but it can raise your negotiating starting point.

Good luck, sorry about your car. (I would take the money and buy something else that hasn't been hit)

gstigler is giving you goodadvise as to continuing to see your doctor. Do not let there be any gaps of non treatment and keep all appointments.

When you meet with State Farm, they will raise there offer maybe $500. Ask to speak with the claims manager. Now, have them specify how they are ariving at their value. Wholesale?? if that's there answer - fine, write it down as well as the names of the person's present. If you take good notes (take your time and write everything down) they will know you are sharp or are getting advise.

Have them call their attorney- either outside firm or their claim litigation office. Even their staff attorneys (good attorneys) can quickly over the phone tell them that the measure of damages in any court (Florida to California) is the lesser of the cost to repair or the fair market value. This is not wholesale value. it is what it would cost a customer in the area to buy it and the public is not going to be able to buy it at wholesale.

If they only offer you wholesale ask them where you can buy a simular car at that wholesale price. They will be stuck for an answer. Tell them that you are "asking them once again to honor their policy". That by making an offer based on unobtainable wholesale value that they may be acting in "bad faith". If the contract (policy) does not provide for value on wholesale basis why are even asking you to accept that. Write down their response and who said what. Later on specifics will carry the day for you.

Do not accept wholesale value. If you have to walk away fine, get the name of the managers boss - the territorial manager. Politely let them know that their offer based on wholesale value is improper and let them know you consider the basis of their offer to be bad faith handling of your claim. I will explain that later - but they will recognize it. That may bring them around.

If you have to walk then walk but always be polite, firm but professional. Remember, they will be deciding what kind of appearance you will make if their is a lawsuit. They are more impressed and concerned if you handle this in a professional
manner.

If you get to a figure you can live with (with you keeping the car) be sure that the agreement states that the parties are agreeing to the figure (before the deuctible is applied) as the agreed upon repair costs so that your car is not declared a "total'' loss or a "salvage vehicle". if you keep the car, you do not want it to be listed as a "salvage" vehicle. Don't forget to have them add the tax.

Finally, and this is at the end but before you sign the release (property release only). Have them confirm whether you had rental vehicle coverage. If you purchased that coverage, you would be entitled to get that from the date of the loss until the date they agreed on the settlement figure. A new claim rep will squirm but an experienced one won't mind - wouldn't they want the same if the positions were reversed.

In the release have them write that you are reserving your rights as to the "tortfeasors" to recover your deductible (probably $500) and in the event you did not have rental coverage with State Farm your right to recover loss of use damages.

I say that because if you reach an agreement with State Farm you can then go the the other company and they will probably pay the amount of your deductible and loss of use rather then get involved in a law suit. You have to be sure that any release you sign for them says it is only for your deductible and loss of use and specifically does not impede State Farm's right of subrogation. It will be up to state Farn to go after the othr carrier for subrogation either by suit or arbitration.

Remember - Keep calm, polite and professional.

Dunno how I stumbled onto this thread but, git0, you are defintely a lawyer. I am too, so it's OK. Good advice to the poor victim of this event.