W126 HORRIFYING rust discovery! Help/Opinions wanted... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #16 10-28-2005, 10:24 PM

Maybe, maybe not. It would be worth exploring more though. I'm sure with a razor knife you could make cuts in select areas and explore for more cancer.

I know it hurts but rust is like cancer it is better you find it now then 3 years from now.

kmaysob · #17 10-28-2005, 10:41 PM

you could even use pop rivets if you wanted. thats what i did on my first benz.

whunter · #18 10-29-2005, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmaysob

you could even use pop rivets if you wanted. thats what i did on my first Benz.

Not possible without compromising the structural areas that must be addressed even further.
In a floor pan, door or fender, even some roof areas, but not the unibody structural subframe...

bbeardb · #19 10-29-2005, 01:44 AM

I'm glad this post came up. I went to jack up my car via the frame rails myself and noticed it starting to give. The other side, somebody obviously didn't notice it give, it's all dented in.

My question is, why are these frame rails so weak? Our of the 8 or 9 vehicles I've had, none of them had frame rails that would bend.

What gives, besides the frame?

Glinko · #20 10-29-2005, 01:53 AM

My frame rails don't give....I have a 123 chassis. I hope you're putting a piece of 2x4 in between your jack and the frame rail....

I've given up on my rust problem. I do not have the time, money, or (most importantly) motivation to perform any intrusive rust removal/amendation on my car. There is a lot of rust under the rubber coating that I was unaware of at the time of purchase.

Way I see it, the car is living in borrowed time. I'll drive it until It gets too rusty to look at, or until it gets wrecked/suffers a catastrophic failure.

Maybe if it winds up sitting in my garage doing nothing, I could sell it for parts to one of you dudes here on the 4-ummz.

pawoSD · #21 10-29-2005, 02:36 AM

I think whatever moron in the past that tried to jack it that way figured it out and stopped, because the driver side is fine, I did peel some of the undercoat off in the same places, and found only minimal surface rust, and thats all....so I treated it heavily with rust converter, and sprayed the aerosol form of that down inside the subframe so it was misting out the little holes on the bottom, then I deemed it good to go. The rear area by the sway mount on the driver side is flawless, no rust, no damage, nothing. Its so weird that its all on one side like that.

The car is not a native to MI, but to PA. Our 83 is native to Windsor Canada, where it lived 11 years, then it migrated to the USA, in metro detroit for a number of years with a traveling salesman (drove it 100k+ in about 5-6 years!) Then it spent three years with the guy we got it from who lived in Royal Oak off woodward Ave. (whunter territory...

) We got it on ebay from him after we'd seen it in person. It has some similar rust probs, but moreso on the body panels (mine is non existant on the body panels) than the frame, it does on the arches by the braking strut on the drivers side, it will be tended to eventually. Also the infamous rear window adventure, as that car.

Its still leak free and 0 rust, that job will hold up forever.

I know its a losing battle against rust here....sigh, I hope to keep my car as long as I can before it becomes unsafe to drive.

It hurts me severely to think of the day I may have to sentence it to retirement.

It is however, MANY years off, thankfully.

rg2098 · #22 10-29-2005, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

...Ask Adam how his nerves survived watching me welding on his baby, and seeing it catch fire in small patches due to rust coat burning out of cracks...

Yes, undercoating and rust coatings create a lot of smoke and like to ignite. Thank you Roy for bringing those memorys back.

andmoon · #23 10-29-2005, 01:08 PM

I wonder if no undercoating would actually have been better for rust prevention.

Graham · #24 10-29-2005, 08:15 PM

That rust does not look too good!

Structural parts should all be ground back to solid metal and then weld repaired. No other choice.

If some of the rust is just on inner fenders or other non-structural sheetmetal, it can be repaired. I peeled back MB undercoating , and found rusty metal in a few places that I could put my finger through. I wire brushed as best as I could, and used POR-15 to stabilize the rust. I have not used Miracle Paint,but I believe it is a similar 1-component moisture curing polyurethane, so would presumably do same job. Don't use these products to layup a glass patch - Much better to use an epoxy resin such as that from WEST Systems. You can apply this right over the POR rust coat. I applied 3 or 4 layers of boat repair glass cloth, gradually increasing the patch size so as the feather the repair out. Once cured, I overpainted with black POR - Provides a good solid repair.

PS: I have used POR-15 to "lay-up" a repair in a flat tool kit area, but because it does not bond as well as polyester or epoxy to glass cloth, did not want to use it for these repairs on vertical surfaces.

barry123400 · #25 10-29-2005, 09:58 PM

In my area a subframe type of repair is not allowed. This came about because several cars utilise a very strong steel type in some subframes that is apparently weakened by general welding. Therefore if we want to repair them we pretty well must do your own. The main reason I am posting though is to mention that once repairs are completed and in the process you will find out if you are dealing with a mass of oxidation or not. It really pays to sometimes take a punch and hammer and test a lot of areas of the undercarrage if you find you have one or two bad areas. Quite often metal can look good but in reality is just a lot of oxidation kind of held together by the undercoat. Then the only way to kind of reduce the rate of advance of the rust that seems economically sane after repairs is to mix a mixture of grease and oil. Warm it up a little if required and spray it everywhere you can gain access under there. It is the best way to slow down the rate of oxidation or rusting that we have found in our rustbelt. It does not totally stop it but radically reduces its spread and rate. Most types of rubberized undercoatings etc. just seem to speed up the oxidation process once it has started. Before grease and oil treatment one should make sure you have repaired all that you want to as to prep for welding more at a later date would involve quite a pre-cleaning task. But it will really slow down the rate of oxidation big time. I personally purchased a hydralic spray gun purpose designed to process heavier mixtures of grease and graphite years ago for this approach. Try to visualise the treatment kind of like chemo therapy for cancer. It does buy you substancial time in most cases over other remedys except the total elimination of rusty parts. Some of your photos show a major form of rust. Layered oxidised metal. Just my opinion of course.

pawoSD · #26 10-29-2005, 11:38 PM

Update:

We brought both cars (with many areas of discovered rust) to the person my dad knows today, he welded in a MASSIVE steel bracket on mine on the passenger side, and I treated and sealed up the upper area. All I need to do now is treat the minor rust on the drivers side (not enough on that side to even make a small hole or anything, thankfully) then reundercoat that too. I undercoated the big piece of steel welded in (MAG welded, VERY interesting to watch!

) He's a pro and did a fine job on both cars. On the 83 he welded in many small stainless steel plates to several spots we found, and two flat bars across the bottom areas (was rusted w/hole on both sides) It has also been heavily undercoated.

Best part, he ended up not charging us!

Instead, I will be providing him with some much needed repairs to his computer, something I'd be glad to do. We decided to look into fixing my hole in the back later on, I treated it all super well with rust treatment and such, but I will re-grind later and in a couple weeks we'll work on fixing that one too.

Overall, very productive day at once again demolishing rust.

whunter · #27 10-30-2005, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Update: We brought both cars (with many areas of discovered rust) to the person my dad knows today, he welded in a MASSIVE steel bracket on mine on the passenger side, and I treated and sealed up the upper area. Best part, he ended up not charging us!

Instead, I will be providing him with some much needed repairs to his computer, something I'd be glad to do. We decided to look into fixing my hole in the back later on, I treated it all super well with rust treatment and such, but I will re-grind later and in a couple weeks we'll work on fixing that one too.
Overall, very productive day at once again demolishing rust.

That is great news.

Very happy to hear the worst is repaired.

whunter · #28 11-20-2005, 05:24 PM

Any further progress?

pawoSD · #29 11-20-2005, 06:12 PM

I peeled off a ton of undercoat on the drivers side, found some "light" rust all up along the front curved post....treated it, the top area was a bit rusty, small hole (not even 1cm x 1cm), I scraped off all loose rust, treated it HEAVILY with rust converter (this stuff is amazing), then I undercoated it with about 5 coats of really durable/expensive Duplicolor Undercoat. The drivers side was in WAY better shape than the passenger side, thankfully. I got it all treated and done the last nice day we had here (a saturday 2 weeks ago, it was 69 out!!) 3 days later, the weather became horrid....I am so glad I got it all sealed up in time. Hopefully my car will survive the winter with little salt-impact. I try to powerwash it whenever there's salt....so that should help too.

The 83 currently sits, undriven, its future a question mark. We do intend to fix it, just not decided on working on it ourselves.....or sending it to the o'l dealer.

Ken300D · #30 11-20-2005, 07:14 PM

What are some of the methods used to get that rubberized undercoating off the bottom of these cars?

I have no problem peeling it back and cutting it away when it's over rust, because there's nothing for it to adhere to except rust flakes. However, I get into a tedious process when trying to clear the undercoating further back into the "good metal" area in preparation for welding. It really can stick pretty tight to good metal.

Heat gun?

Ken300D