Welding the wrong metals can kill you
 

SAFETY - III : A Case study
Death by Metal Fume Fever
Posthumous Demonstration by Jim Paw-Paw Wilson
http://www.pawpawsforge.com
May 13, 2005
http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor/safety3/


Please do NOT become a statistic.
The dangers in welding, cutting, heating and grinding should never be underestimated.
This does not happen as often as in the past, but needs to be brought to the attention of new DIY, and younger members.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyacetylene

http://www.oxarc.com/welding_safety_guide.ydev

Welding Safety on the Farm
http://www.umext.maine.edu/onlinepubs/htmpubs/farmseries/2320.htm

http://www.afscme.org/health/faq-weld.htm

http://www.usq.edu.au/faculty/arts/SAFETY/SWP/swp0391.htm

http://agsci.oregonstate.edu/research/FST_manual/02-07.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000801-d000900/d000873/d000873.html

http://publicsafety.tufts.edu/firemarshal/contractors/weld.html

http://publicsafety.tufts.edu/firemarshal/contractors/weld.html

http://www.occupationalhazards.com/safety_zones/45/article.php?id=4407

http://maco.cog.mt.us/workerscomp&safety/SafeWelding.htm

http://www.key-to-metals.com/Article29.htm

http://www.worksafe.nt.gov.au//corporate/bulletins/pdf/11-15/15.04.11.pdf

http://www.worksafe.nt.gov.au//corporate/bulletins/pdf/11-15/15.04.11.pdf


grinding toxic fumes
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=grinding+toxic+fumes&btnG=Search

grinding operation toxic fumes
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=grinding+operation+toxic+fumes&btnG=Search

welding caused dust explosion
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=welding+caused+dust+explosion+&btnG=Search

Welding Explosion and burns
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Welding.+Explosion+and+burns+&btnG=Search

welding in garage caused home fire
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=welding+in+garage+caused+home+fire&btnG=Search

Also, remember that most of your time spend 'welding' is actually spent grinding. Using the angle grinder to shape metal, using the wire brush head to clean metal, using the sanding head to smooth welds, etc, and that the noise from that can be very dangerous and uncomfortable.

I always wear a full face shield, the visor that comes down over your whole face, and full ear protection. They are basic and inexpensive, but very effective. The visor is better than goggles, because it keeps particles out of your nose and mouth and hair, and the ear protection keeps you hearing for years to come.

Also, recall the studies that Mercedes did a long time ago that guided their design choices, the greatest factor in driver fatigue is noise, and the same is true when you are working with a welder and grinder.

If I don't wear the ear protection, I'm worn out after just a little while, but with the ear protection, I can go all day without getting tired (and have, on many occasions). Seriously, it makes a bigger difference than people realize in your comfort!

Thanks for the safety reminders, whunter. :)

peace,
sam

barry123400
 

barry123400
Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 753

For those that did not know again this is good information. The thing you run across in cars is galvanized steel and other propietary metal coatings. If your not positive what your welding on ask somebody or check. You do not want to weld on this stuff anyways as the weld can be so contaminated that it has no strength mind the safety hazzard. Anytime the arc is doing something unusual like going off colour or making excess smoke you are getting an important clue that something is unusual. That said the benifits of proper application of welding technoligy are enourmous. With care and understanding you can do work at home that is not substandard and not a safety risk. Plus since you do not weld all day for a living you are not undergoing long heavy exposure as even the byproducts of normal welding are not particularily good for you. Just my two cents worth. Would never be without my welders, plazma cutter etc. Come to think of it another liability of working on our cars is the fire risk.Just think before you apply a weld to an area is really about all it takes. Plus have a really good fire extinguisher handy. I prefer the larger halon units as there is no after residue (white powder) but not able to get refils now. Think the stuff attacked the ozone layer. But it was good.

Good Info.....how about those exhaust valves!!!!
 

Very useful information. Iron, regular steel are not that hazardous, but as you said, other metals are more hazardous. Metal fume fever is caused by repeated long term highe exposue to many welding metals. The average DIYer is not really at risk of this. Of greater concern, as you said, are the galvanizing coatings which may contain some very toxic metals (lead, cadmium), or stainless steel which contains very toxic chromium.

On another note.. while we continue our discussion of hazards associated with working on cars, I was suprized when looking through my MBZ manuals, in preparation for a valve job, to find that the exhaust valves have their core filled with sodium....no, not sodium chloride (table salt)....but pure sodium metal...apparently it acts as a heat sink to protect the valves (neat idea). DO NOT TRY TO ACCESS THIS STUFF BY SAWING OR GRINDING INTO A VALVE....THIS STUFF IS PROBABLY THE MOST DANGEROUS SUBSTANCE IN THE CAR...AND I MEAN REALLY, REALLY DANGEROUS. IT REACTS WITH WATER TO EXPLODE VIOLENTLY SENDING OUT FLAMES, SHRAPNEL, MOLTEN METAL...LEAVE THE EXHAUST VALVES INTACT!!!

MARK

Thank you
 

Danger:
You really do not want to work with this element.

It's ELEMENTAL
http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele011.html

As a motorcyclist I believe this is true. When wearing hearing protection inside the helmet I am far less stressed and rider longer than when I do not have them in. Come to think of it, when driving my convertable I get tired of it much faster than when I am in my ubercruiser W124 (or maybe it's the type of road.. LOL). I do find that sound of any type affects my concentration and concentration required energy. Less noise, less energy required to stay on task is how I see it.

Yup! Hearing protection is one of the most important things cited by long distance riders, Ironbutts and the like, for preventing fatigue. Its not just for long term health (which is important) but for short term comfort as well.

peace,
sam

In high school chemistry we took a small piece of sodium the size of a pea with a forceps (do not touch it with your fingers the moisture in your sweat will set it off) and dropped it in a beaker of water. It blew the beaker to hell. Only a fool would grind a sodium cooled valve in a valve grinder especially if the grinder had water solluable oil for a coolant. I often thought that a chunk of sodium the size of a softball would work great for lake fishing.:D

Sodium is not as bad as you think it might be.

http://www.qsl.net/kd7inf/experiment_files/sodium.wmv

That was a HUGE chunk...probably 3-4lbs. (sold for thousands of dollar on the black market). Anything about the size of a pea etc is not TERRIBLY dangerous...

Now cesium...thats another story :) That one will get ya toasty.

So first hand experience...you could empty a valve into a pot of water and get some light fiz...maybe some heat...the oxidation byproduct would irritate your eyes/skin but the quantity is so small that you are not at SERIOUS risk.

Not trying to downplay the dangers but sodium is not as "bad" as many people think. I used to fear it too until I actually got to play with it.

Oh I loved high school chemisty :)

Kids don't even get to do the real experiments in high school like we did. Our school loaded up all of the chemicals and sent them to the EPA for proper disposal. Now they do their experiments on a computer. Big deal. I had more fun in chemistry until the teacher shut my lab down when I requested sulphuric acid and potasium cyanide.:eek:

my friend and I got caught pouring glycerin down a glass rod onto 12M nitric acid.:eek: Good thing the teacher was a substitute and didn't know.

BTW, this statement: I often thought that a chunk of sodium the size of a softball would work great for lake fishing. concerns me. Everyone should know that the preferred "surface attractant" is dynamite. Besides, I'm watching my sodium level:D

Not to threadjack an otherwise VERY important thread however my lab class evacuated our entire high school twice. And its not a small school.

Both time, them chemical storage bottle was...lets say...a bit gassy ;)

"Ah I can't breathe!"
"I guess we shouldn't have made phosgene gas for our experiment today!"

When I first started posting on mercedesshop almost 6 years ago, there was a frequent poster that went by "Deezel." He was an Aircraft Mechanic from Georgia. He evidently had lost a friend or seen someone badly hurt because he was constantly interjecting very good safety information. I called him the self appointed safety officer.

After he stopped posting, I would try to point out safety concerns where they were appropriate in posts but have lost the habit. I am glad that whunter is now our proactive safety officer and this is appreciated at least by me, and I expect by all.

It is all too common to see people in a shop environment violate common sense safety rules. The problem is that most of the time they get by with some of these violations which makes them lacadaisical(sp?) about it, which ultimately ends up with bad or drastic results.

I have to admit that if I am doing a quick weld on something galvanized, I don't always grind away the coating. An example is a couple of galvanized electric boxes that I welded onto my welding cart about a year ago. The shop doors were open and a breeze was blowing through so I turned my body upwind and welded these things in place right quick. With the breeze I don't think it hurt much, but I am the first to admit that it would have been best to grind off the galvanize first.

Thanks whunter for thinking of us all!

Merry Christmas,

I agree.....many of us have bad habbits that we keep doing becasue we never got hurt yet.(or even really think about it)...point being is unsafe practices are like plaing Russian roullete.....eventually you are going to end up with a loaded chamber. Then BOOM.....its too late.

I did something similar in 1975 only I heated arsenic in a crucible.:eek: My experiments bordered on the bizzare.
Anyway back to the topic on sodium cooled valves. Years ago when one purchased new sodium cooled valves there was a warning on the box that said it was unsafe to grind them because of water solulable cooling oil used in valve grinders. I always took their word for it and threw the old ones away.