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#31
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...was having such a craving after reading this thread...I enjoyed them |
#32
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I replaced the floor on a Jeep Cherokee (one side). I used 16 guage as I remember. I cleaned the area very well and bedded the patch with marine grade bedding material and then used stainless steel rivits to hold it all together. After the bedding material dried I coated the outside with auto under coat and painted the inside.
The car is still on the road with no problems.
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1983 300SD 200000miles |
#33
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want another reason not to buy a new car? The new BMW 5-series sedan has front frame rails that are aluminum, and are glued and riveted to the firewall. If you replace a front rail, you have to use special rivets that cost $5 each and special blue epoxy. You can't do any welding because the heat would destroy the aluminum and you can't very weld aluminum to the steel firewall/floor structure. So much for repairability...
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2002 Ford ZX2 2 x 2013 Honda Civics |
#34
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Aeroplanes have been glued together for ages.. They were made of spruce, birch plywood, and balsa-wood,...the De Havilland Mosquito was a case in point.
So...why not a car/truck ? .
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[http://languageandgrammar.com/2008/01/14/youve-got-problems-not-issues/ ] "A liberal is someone who feels they owe a great debt to their fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." |
#35
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I had a rust hole in my 82 300D right under one of the passenger seat's rear support points and I had a bodyshop do the repair. They chose to rivet in a piece of metal and further secure it with something similar to JB weld. I plan to do the same on my 240D because I have a similar situation there, just a different place. I'll check out Harbor Freight Tools and see if they have any rivet guns. What's a good place to get some sheet metal?
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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual) Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL |
#36
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if
now i am the advocate of riveting but
if you have to weld then what i would do is go to harbor freight and buy the welder that is like a big plier and it will spot weld ... if you just have to weld then go buy that thing... it will spot weld it as if your riveting... it looks like the jaws of life.... |
#37
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The only problem with a spot welder for floorboard repair is having one with a deep enough throat to reach to all areas of the floorboard.
The MIG is a good choice for this work, but a little practice and experimenting will be needed. I would suggest a 175 or 180 Amp MIG such as the Hobart Handler 180 or the MillerMatic. Use CO2/Argon and .030 solid wire. You will be much better off with one of these welders and a 220 circuit than using one of the 120V welders that are about 135 or 140 Amps. They will be MUCH more versatile for jobs far beyond welding the floorboard. TSC now has a great special that includes Handler 180, a cart, a small gas bottle and a self darkening helmet for right at $600. This is a GREAT buy. Some folks prefer the Miller equivalent but it is much more expensive and the infinitely variable voltage adjustment is very tricky for a rookie welder. Even highly experienced welders have trouble with it. Hobart is now made by Miller and the latest Handler series is a really good unit for the money. Good luck, |
#38
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While airplanes do last quite a good number of years they don't tend to be very crash worthy in general. My point being using the proper method of attachments in the proper situations.....each has its place and are not universilly interchangible.
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Proud owner of .... 1971 280SE W108 1979 300SD W116 1983 300D W123 1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper 1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel 1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified) --------------------- Section 609 MVAC Certified --------------------- "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche |
#39
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Political solution (also technically good)
I plan to use Rivets and Welding after studying the damaged Seam yesterday; Rivets to secure the metal (vice clamps) while its being welded. Heck I may also put POR on top of the whole thing and all my floorboards so they will last out another couple of years...With my luck and being a Beginner, I cant wait to see what shows up as a end product. I suspect I will weld a screwdriver or ratchet into the frame or do something equally dumb. My learning curve isnt bad though
Comment about composites, epoxies, etc. Well the Boeing 777 is going to be made of Composite Resin (not metal) Yikes!!! That will be cool, sitting in Cross Pacific flight and watching some terrorist hijack the plane with a bottle of Nail Polish remover (" Take me to Hahadinamahia or I will melt a hole in the airplane with this stuff!")Thats the new thing in this industry. The only problem is newer cars are tougher and tougher to repair after collision damage. You can't strengthen composites..... |
#40
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Have fun with the welding. It may not be a big issue if you choose to rivet it in, then weld it, but its a good idea to weld little tack welds every 6 inches or so first, to hold the piece in place, and prevent it from warping (which the heat will make it want to do). Then lay down your full beads.
Also, if you haven't already, Haynes has a good automotive welding manual. It goes over basic welding techniques, plus a lot of auto-specific tips. I found it a useful read. And have fun! Learning to weld is like learning to use a screwdriver, it opens up so many repair possibilities. I was laying down functional beads after only about 10 minutes of practice with the MIG process, so it'll come fast. peace, sam
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"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry." 1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ) 2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG) |
#41
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'82 300SD - 361K mi - "Blue" "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." listen, look, .........and duck. |
#42
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I don't think I would use it in the case Richard is talking about, but I have used quite a bit of this stuff to patch smaller floorbard holes. I have a floorboard patch about the size of my fist in the corner where by left foot resides on my '82 240D and it has held up well for 3 years:
http://www.lord.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1190#108B109BT30 No corrosion, no heat, no welder. This stuff is about $25 for 7.5 ounces.
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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??) |
#43
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__________________
Proud owner of .... 1971 280SE W108 1979 300SD W116 1983 300D W123 1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper 1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel 1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified) --------------------- Section 609 MVAC Certified --------------------- "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche |
#44
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Gee Whiz Guys....
I have posted this stuff before.... and I realize that many of you don't have a metalworking background and that many of you have never seen a car which was Not unibody.... etc... But it is in the archives... spelled out in physics and logic both... Anytime you bring metal to a heat sufficient to weld it you have taken away any special strength which it had to begin with. You do not have a way to cool at the proper rate and method to give it back those characteristics... if you know about metal working then you know that even if you tried... the fact that there is no way to it due to the whole piece not being the same temperature when the process starts and ends... So butt welding a piece of metal ... even the correct thickness, style and alloy decreases the strength of the metal... which may be important when talking about something you rest your feet on AND which at a certain point in terms of size might even effect the structural integrity of your car during a crash. It also almost automatically introduces a line of increased suseptibility to corrosion all around your attaching line. Welding sheet metal always produces distortion in addition to deterioration of the original characteristics... .. sometimes it is controable.. sometimes barely...and at too much extra work... The metal which you have available to attach TO needs to be carefully conserved with regards to strength also... we are dealing with old cars here... Everyone needs a copy of the paper catalog from these guys : http://www.aircraft-tool.com/atscat.aspx The proper way to attach a floorboard to a unibody car is by using an offset flanger and overlapping the sheetmetal being installed with the sheetmetal in the car. Then you use whatever kind of rivets ( and plug welds if you want ) to attach it. Solid rivets can be used where any ability to put a bucking plate behind ( anvil type device ) And CherryMax rivets can be used where only one side is accessible. However, the Cherrymax are used regularly by themselves to build Experimental Aircraft.... And no one studies sheetmetal methods closer than those guys.... they know their lives are on the line and spare no expense. And then there IS the fire starting question when dealing with a tight area with bad access from the other and Under side.. Find a good general metal working book... like used to be used in Metal Work courses in High Schools... all this stuff is in there... including how to judge by the thickness of the metals you are putting together the size,material, spacing and length of the rivets you need to buy . |
#45
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(he he just kidding Greg--last year my supervisor used that line on me after I got a Bloody Nose on the treadmill and he tried to initiate an investigation on it--he's gone now...) |
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