Rust, enlighten me.

[elchivito]

This isn't a troll I promise. I don't recall reading about a lot of rust issues with other late 70's-80's vintage european cars. As I'm looking at Merc's for sale, I find myself always looking for rust after all the caveats I've read here. Most of the cars I've looked at have had some rust, even though I'm in Arizona. I'm having a real hard time understanding why one of the premier cars in the world, a brand known for cutting edge technology, longevity, safety and durability is so prone to rust. Given that these automobiles are built in a place where it rains and snows A LOT, you'd think rust protection would be at the top of the priority list. Once again, I'm not trolling but would really like to hear the experts' thoughts. What gives?

[maxfax]

IF they didn't rust they'd never sell any cars..

[75Sv1]

First, it was during the early 80's that rust prevention took hold in the auto industry. I think Chrysler and Jeep did a better job earlier than most with galvanizing.
Second, I think Germany doesn't use salt on thier roads. I might be mistaken.
Also, these cars have rust, because they have survived while others have perished. Mine is an '81, with minor rust on some paint scratches. I think it spent most of its years in Washington St, Oregon and northern CA. Ok my '75 Bricklin has less rust. But it has a plastic/fiberglass body. My '78 Honda Civic had plenty of rust and bondo being from PA. Rust was eating away at my '78 Gremlin in the early to late '80's.
A lot of the Euro and Japnese cars had serious rust back then. A lot of American cars and trucks too. I alot of the American muscle cars and Euro sports cars that you see in mint or actually better than factory mint have had major work on them. It is extermely rare to see them from the factory with no rust. Those one probably have very low miles.
Don't kid yourself, MB used thicker steel than others. I don't see any Audi Foxes, BMW 2002 on the road. Porsche 914 have more than their share of rust problems. Sit in one with the door close, then try and open it. Fiat x/19, yeah right. Ford, Chevy Dodge trucks, they rust in the cabs in different places.
Tom

[rrgrassi]

I saw plenty of BMW 2002's in California when I lived there a few years ago. I still see them here in the DFW area. I have not seen any VW Dasher/Audi Fox's since the mid 80's.

[babymog]

The cars worth fixing, get fixed and live on. The Dasher / Fox for example, didn't have much of a following being a basic FWD econobox, and its value didn't justify repairs when a few years old (I had a '77 Fox, decent little car).

The 124-bodied cars were the first ones I remember Mercedes zink-dipping (except wagon), I can recall our body shop welding holes shut on 123s when only 3-4years old.

Rust really wasn't much of an issue in Germany either, in the '80s a car became too expensive to maintain to where it would pass TUV and travel West Germany's roads when only a few years old, and it would be sold to someone in an eastern-bloc country.

[75Sv1]

Originally Posted by rrgrassi

I saw plenty of BMW 2002's in California when I lived there a few years ago. I still see them here in the DFW area. I have not seen any VW Dasher/Audi Fox's since the mid 80's.

I did see a VW Dasher around here in the last few years. But, I have also see a few AMC Pacers and a few Ford Pintos. One of the Pacers looked either redone or well cared for. The other not and the Pinto was a wagon that looked like it was used a lot, but held together.
I did see a BMW at an Auction about '95. It was a mid priced model so maybe a 5 series, late 80's early 90's. Rust every where, the hood was almost swiss cheese. I will say it was probably under water or such.

I just see more MB W123 around here, Indiana than other cars from that era. Another vehicle that I think has held up over time is Jeep Cherokees and Comanches. I see about a dozen Comanches around here. There weren't a lot of them sold relatively. Also, they probably had a rough life compared to a luxuary or sports car.
Tom

[marybeth]

I grew up in Detroit wher they use a LOT of salt in the winter. Evey car I owned up there died of rust cancer from Ford/GM/Chrysler to VWs.

All my cars were "undercoated' with both factory undercoating and post factory undercoating. I think that added at best a few years to the cancer death of these cars.

Recently I think the POR-15 is a godsend. I should own stock in the company. The POR-15 stuff is like magic and stops rust dead (when applied correctly)

Also MBs seemed to rust as the basic maintenance of cleaing out the drains-hood, sunroof, trunk -were almost always negelected and the drains clogged. Water settled into hidden places, soon to be followed by rust.

[DocSarvis]

Hey el, what kind of mb are you looking for. yrs, model, and type of shape which equates to budget range. I'm in Tucson and Craigslist has had a few. I got my 83 300d on graigs list and stiil have less trhan a grand in it. Thanks

[elchivito]

Originally Posted by DocSarvis

Hey el, what kind of mb are you looking for. yrs, model, and type of shape which equates to budget range. I'm in Tucson and Craigslist has had a few. I got my 83 300d on graigs list and stiil have less trhan a grand in it. Thanks

I've been looking at 79-85 range 300D's and SD's. I've kind of settled on keeping a lookout for 300D's, although there seem to fewer of them than SD's. I live near Sedona, and gotta tell you that town is FULL of them, almost all driven by little blue haired rich widows who won't part with their dead hubby's baby. Lots of the ones I see parked somewhere in Sedona look showroom new. Once in a great while one comes up for sale, but I've had to broaden my search to Flagstaff, Prescott and Phx. I saw a nice yellow 300D on ebay that was in Tucson recently and checked and sure enough found it on CL also. I was able to call the guy selling it and find out the reserve auction price. He had a 2500 dollar reserve and got more than that. No way I could make it down there to look at it so I didn't bid. It'd be nice to have a contact down there in case something comes up. I'd say my top range is about 3000 bucks. Around here though, there are lots of people interested in grease conversions so it seems to me like prices are inflated. Going rate for an early 80's 300D with multiple cosmetic/interior issues and needing at least some mechanical work seems to be about 2500 bucks.
I see what many of you are saying. There are a lot of these cars still on the road compared to other makes that have long since failed mechanically, so perhaps a rust comparison isn't valid after all. Being from AZ I'm a rust virgin anyhow. My 84 Ford F150 has nary a speck of rust though, and all the old AZ vehicles I've owned have been rust free. Never bought a car in Flagstaff though, I think they only stopped using salt a few years ago.

[DocSarvis]

http://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/1367482149.html http://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/1366784885.html They are not mine and I havent seen them. Just giving you a couple examples. There is also some non running. I can look at some if you find them but I can't spend your money. I can put you up if you make a trip down here. I make a trip to The VV once a moth. Thanks

[Tirebiter]

In 1975, Porsche was the first manufacturer to introduce hot-dip galvanized steel for the entire body. This considerably improved corrosion protection.

[Brandon_SLC]

Window seals. Even in Cali. or AZ leaking windows will rust out your floor, trunk, etc. I've had very few cars with leaking windshields and rear windows, but the ones that did were German.

The thing about the steel strike is way overblown. A 44 day strike is often used to blame rust on any 1970's era MB. For a couple months MB sourced their steel from Italy.

A bigger reason is considering the small number of MB cars in the US, there is a large percentage still running. You won't see many rusty 1970's Japanese cars, even though they were sold by the millions. Most of them were junked long ago.

[alamostation]

You can rust-proof the devil out of a car, and if it is driven in an area where salt is used on the road in the winter-time, it will still get rust.

When I was living in the Ithaca, NY area ten years ago, I would have been stupid to buy a decent car. I bought winter rats. A seven to ten year old car that was rusted through everywhere went for $150 to $500. My favorites were Subarus, four wheel drive for the hills and snow, plus they had a vital flaw. The cat was the y pipe for the exhaust system and the lowest part of the car. It got rusted and damaged before anything else. Then it failed inspection. Replacement was $900 at any shop in town. Working at NAPA, I could get the whole exhaust system for less than $350. I bought and resold many Loyales at a good profit.

VW's were very cheap because of the rust damage. My Quantum with 70,000 miles had a trunk that was accessable from the outside, through either side.

On the flip side, none of my three native Texas cars have a bit of rust, except for Guderian, who has a silver dollar sized spot partially under the rear window gasket.

In short, rust is a problem for all makes. Even Corvettes from the rust belt have problems because of rust on the brakes, exhausts and frame.

[babymog]

Rust, yes, but at a different rate. Even Stainless Steel rusts.

My '85 quattro was my daily driver, even after I bought the 4matic I drove the quattro when it snowed, which is pretty much daily here in the winter. They use salt, enough that there are piles left in the intersections after the snow is gone. Still the quattro doesn't have any rust, I sold it 2years ago. The key is NOT having aftermarket "rustproofing" applied, and washing the car thoroughly and frequently, including the wheelwells and undercarriage.

[tankowner]

Originally Posted by babymog

The key is NOT having aftermarket "rustproofing" applied, and washing the car thoroughly and frequently, including the wheelwells and undercarriage.

More on this please - why avoid aftermarket rustproofing - I am not really familiar with it, so I don't know the downfalls.

Also, how do you effectively wash the undercarriage?