My W123 saloon / sedan old accident repair (and a bit of rust repair) thread - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Mike D · #61 10-28-2011, 02:45 PM

I feel your pain. I used to live in a state where any car over 5 years old wasn't worthy of removing parts.

A few years ago a guy named Markus used to come over here from Amsterdam. He'd pay for his trip by buying W114's and W123's. He'd strip them into their components, load up a shipping container and send them home for sale.

Al and I could work something up like that for you, Army. 'Course you'd have to live in the container whilst you were stripping down the cars.

Stretch · #62 10-29-2011, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D

I feel your pain. I used to live in a state where any car over 5 years old wasn't worthy of removing parts.

A few years ago a guy named Markus used to come over here from Amsterdam. He'd pay for his trip by buying W114's and W123's. He'd strip them into their components, load up a shipping container and send them home for sale.

Al and I could work something up like that for you, Army. 'Course you'd have to live in the container whilst you were stripping down the cars.

Thanks Mike.

I did think of trying to find a rust free body, but even if I decide to replace the whole panels with MB dealer sourced ones it will work out to be cheaper than buying a car or body that has been imported from the US. They don't come cheap.

Alternatively visiting you guys and finding a rust free example would cost in excess of 2000 euros in flights, accommodation and hire cars and that's without buying the car. I would indeed have to fill a container and then spend the rest of the year or even longer shifting parts out to other people here... and then the tax man gets involved and before I know it I have to go and do another trip to pay off the 40% tax bill!!!!

I saw a W114 coupe "with all the body work done" that I thought well that could be a nice diesel conversion... but when I saw the pictures of the welding - crap! I'm sure I can do better...

So I'm gonna have to lower the bar and fix as many bits that I can't get from the dealer / klokkerholm as possible. Invisible repairs - are they possible? I am going to try the van Wezel bits as well - in for a penny in for a pound! They are so cheap that I can cut them up for patches. At least they are shaped to the approximate shape required and it will work out cheaper than buying sheet steel.

It is time to fill up that sand bag and dig out the panel beating kit.

boneheaddoctor · #63 10-31-2011, 01:19 PM

If nobody has yet nominated you for the most motivated person on the year, I'm putting you up for nomination right now.

Damn thats a big job you got yourself into.

Care to share any of that motivation with me...I could use a bit more these days.

Stretch · #64 10-31-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

If nobody has yet nominated you for the most motivated person on the year, I'm putting you up for nomination right now.

Damn thats a big job you got yourself into.

Care to share any of that motivation with me...I could use a bit more these days.

Motivation? The wife says it is stubbornness!

Tomorrow the Klokkerholm floor pan is going back - I'm not going to mess about with panels that don't fit.

I've asked both a Dutch dealer and an English Klokkerholm dealer to try and get Klokkerholm to supply me with a panel that doesn't have those handy cut out bits at the back and both times the answer "no" came back from Klokkerholm. What's the big deal? All they have to do is to stop Mungo from chopping out the bit at the end of the manufacturing process...

Anyway I guess I'm asking Sinterklaas (Sinterklaas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) this year for a dealer supplied floor pan...

Some other goodies are turning up too tomorrow - new inner wheel arch pieces (rear), the front right hand upper part of the inner wing, and two reinforcing panels for the structure close to the sub frame.

In the mean time I'm learning to arc weld. I can lay down some really snazzy beads with good penetration on 0.7mm bits of mild steel. But at the moment I can't butt weld for toffee - I can get the bits to stick on some parts of the joint but I end up blowing holes occasionally as I go along.

I'm gonna try and use a copper heat sink underneath the butt joint.

boneheaddoctor · #65 10-31-2011, 01:48 PM

Are you using a stick welder (uses flux covered welding rods) or a MIG welder. Its a lot easier with a MIG. I bought one of those just to do the Rockers and Quarter panel replacement on my W108.

Stretch · #66 10-31-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Are you using a stick welder (uses flux covered welding rods) or a MIG welder. Its a lot easier with a MIG. I bought one of those just to do the Rockers and Quarter panel replacement on my W108.

Nope I'm still struggling with a stick welder - welding web recommend 7014 1.6mm sticks I'm gonna give them a go before I resort to MIG.

boneheaddoctor · #67 10-31-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

Nope I'm still struggling with a stick welder - welding web recommend 7014 1.6mm sticks I'm gonna give them a go before I resort to MIG.

Damn, thats going to be hard to do. But you are going to be stitch welding....going back and forth so laying a long bead isn't going to happen.

Thats why I bought the mig.....too much risk of making a mess out of expensive panels. My hands shake just enough I might poke a hole through hot metal if I don't blow a hole through lingering too long.

Stretch · #68 11-01-2011, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Damn, thats going to be hard to do. ...

Well I'll be the first to post up some pictures if I manage it!

dseretakis · #69 11-02-2011, 04:24 PM

Get a proper MIG welder with the shielding gas and all. Anything else is a waste of time. Arc/stick welders will burn through thin sheetmetal. Even properly welding sheetmetal with a good MIG is a challenge!

Mike D · #70 11-03-2011, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dseretakis

Get a proper MIG welder with the shielding gas and all. Anything else is a waste of time. Arc/stick welders will burn through thin sheetmetal. Even properly welding sheetmetal with a good MIG is a challenge!

Word!

I have managed to wire feed weld sheet metal using the smallest diameter flux core wire but it was a total pain. I spent more time cleaning than I did welding. Using gas I could get about an inch length of bead where using flux core I could only manage a half inch or less at a time.

With flux it was, weld four or five spots, grind clean, weld, grind, etc.

boneheaddoctor · #71 11-03-2011, 08:00 AM

The problem is....by looking at Army's photos....it appears he is working outdoors and the slightest breeze will blow away the shielding gas.....so he would really be needing flux core wire.

But I agree, IF he can work inside a tent or indoors with it....the Gas shielded mig is the way to go....which is the system I bought to do some similar work. I hope to do most if not all of that ina garage.

Stretch · #72 11-03-2011, 08:12 AM

Thanks chaps, I am indeed working outside. I can "tent it up" a bit more to stop the sudden force 10 gusts we get around here - but - I thought the point of the shielding gas was to reduce the effect of oxidisation and thus make a more reliable weld.

Does the shielding gas (in some way) make the spark cooler? From my practice welding experience I get the impression that most of the problem I have is heat dissipation. So isn't a MIG going to make as much concentrated heat as an arc welder?

I can lay down some really gucci welds in the middle of a bit of steel plate (0.7mm thick) but when I get to the sides it just melts away to nothing. That's why I was planning to practice tomorrow with a flattened bit of copper pipe underneath a butt joint to see if I can suck away some of that heat so I have some of my practice piece left when I'm done.

Stretch · #73 11-03-2011, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

...
Does the shielding gas (in some way) make the spark cooler? From my practice welding experience I get the impression that most of the problem I have is heat dissipation. So isn't a MIG going to make as much concentrated heat as an arc welder?

...

Errrr...

actually thing about this - the weld isn't going to be made in an oxygen rich environment is it - so it could well be cooler.

boneheaddoctor · #74 11-03-2011, 09:33 AM

Maybe someone can explain it better than me, I'm not a professional welder at all, but can do 99% of what I need myself.....but with gas shielding there is no flux involved, only the shielding gas, and the welds are cleaner, not as good at TIG or Gas, but far better than Flux Mig or stick (which is always flux type).

It basically shields the molten metal from the atmosphere and the contamination it would induce at that point. Gas or flux both do that, but the gas obviously doesn't leave slag that needs chipped away.

Different gas blends can radically affect the welding characteristics depending on the needs.

Stretch · #75 11-03-2011, 03:12 PM

Interestingly here

stick welding (smaw) procedures

Arc welding apparently has "Lower sensitivity to wind and drafts than gas shielded welding processes"

So may be it is better suited to my out door pursuits than a proper MIG welder? Now if only I can get the plates to fuse and not melt away...

To be honest I don't know how far I'll get with the arc (stick) welding - I'm just practicing with what I've got for now - anything I learn now should help in the future. I'm not going to let myself loose on those body panels I've bought until I'm at least 75% sure I'm not going to have to order some more new ones.