POR-15 gone / going for good? Introducing Zinga! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stretch · #1 05-03-2013, 11:35 AM

G'day Folks,

It is strange how fashion changes everything - well it may not be fashion; it could be economics...

I just had a look on line for a can of POR-15. My usual place here in Holland has stopped stocking it - there is only one supplier left and he sells at a premium tourist price. It can be got cheaper in England but the postage costs...

...so anyway looking for an alternative, the first seller now seems to be pushing this stuff along side the Brunox (made in Switzerland yeah right whatever stuff). This new has a snazzy name

Zinga

Flexible cold galvanising paint-like stuff from outer space!

Features active cathodic protection apparently...

I might give it a go - what do you guys think?

Mike D · #2 05-03-2013, 02:24 PM

Seems good. The only question I'd have is, "what are compatible paints?"

Stretch · #3 05-03-2013, 02:43 PM

They provide this solution

http://www.zinga.eu/en/products?task=download&ln=en&id=6

I get the feeling it is a bit like the POR-15 tie coat primer (that never dries in this climate!)

jmk · #4 05-08-2013, 06:03 PM

Well, it is a moisture cure urethane.

It is an aromatic like POR-15, but instead of using a separate aromatic urethane, it is using a self condensing urethane that reacts with moisture in the air. (Should cure well in Holland!)

Unfortunately, there is not enough info on this MSDS to predict whether this will work as well as POR. Since it is much harder to get crosslink density with a moisture cure, it probably won't work as well.

You would have to try it.

Stretch · #5 05-09-2013, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmk

Well, it is a moisture cure urethane.

It is an aromatic like POR-15, but instead of using a separate aromatic urethane, it is using a self condensing urethane that reacts with moisture in the air. (Should cure well in Holland!)

Unfortunately, there is not enough info on this MSDS to predict whether this will work as well as POR. Since it is much harder to get crosslink density with a moisture cure, it probably won't work as well.

You would have to try it.

I might give it a go.

Graham · #6 06-22-2013, 01:53 PM

As an alternative to POR 15, I am currently using DOM 16. (Less expensive than POR and available at NAPA)

The restoration shop that did some welding for me recommended it. It seems very much like POR 15. It is a bit thinner and tends to be more runny than POR, but I find if I do flat surfaces first and then vertical, is firms up a bit in the paint tray allowing easier use on verticals.

As with POR, I am using it as a binder resin with fibreglass cloth for patching holes. Seems to work well.

Product is made by Dominion Sureseal - They make a large number of autobody products.

This is a write up on the product (from Australia!) :

SMASH SUPPLIES :: Paint :: Dominion 16 Ultimate Rust Preventative Coating 1LT

I read up on Zinga and watched the video. Seems like a good product for it's intended purpose. When i worked in the chemical industry, we used a similar paint for steel chimney stacks. Seems more of an industrial/commercial product than one for DIYers?

jmk · #7 06-25-2013, 04:28 PM

Just looked at the MSDS for DOM 16.

I agree that is similar to POR. It is a solventborne MDI, which is an aromatic isocyanate similar (or could be the same) as POR 15.

What they did is add what is called an "exempt" solvent. It is a solvent that does not count as a "VOC" because they supposedly do not create smog. The volume percent is discarded from the calculation for VOC's.

Make sure you wear a mask. The chemical formulae of the exempt solvents makes me nervous, and they tend to be very irritating.

Again, you need to try it out to see if it performs like POR. I think that this has a much better chance of working than the other moisture cure product.

Graham · #8 06-25-2013, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmk

Just looked at the MSDS for DOM 16.
Again, you need to try it out to see if it performs like POR. I think that this has a much better chance of working than the other moisture cure product.

Thanks for the analysis.

I have been using DOM16 on my current 300D repairs. I have used POR15 for about 22 years, so am familiar with it. DOM16 seems very similar, but it is slightly thinner. As a result, it runs more on vertical surfaces. Doing vertical surfaces last (after it starts to cure a bit) seems to solve that. Otherwise results look same as POR15. I am using it for painting as well as with fibreglass for closing smaller rust holes.

I was surprised to see all the other products that Dominion Sure Seal make and sell.

jmk · #9 06-25-2013, 04:59 PM

try spraying "drier".(increase air in the air/paint ratio on your spray gun) Exempt solvents have a much slower evaporation rate, so that should explain the running in the paint.

Stretch · #10 07-06-2013, 09:44 AM

Hey jmk and Graham,

..or anyone else who has a clue what a "solventborne MDI" is...

how bad is this stuff?

http://www.hammerite.co.uk/web/pdf/datasheets/SDSHM136.pdf

I've used it quite a bit on exterior metal railings and other stuff like hinges on garage doors. I've actually been quite impressed with it - though it goes on a bit thick for visible car body paint but for the underside I was just wondering...

...is it likely to be as good as POR15?

(Cost wise it is quite a bit cheaper than POR-15 or Zinga and readily available in Holland)

Mike D · #11 07-06-2013, 12:11 PM

A MDI is basically a Moisture Drying (Curing) Isocyanate (the spelling is nowhere close). Pretty much the same as POR and Zinga.

Hammerite seems to be more for external structures and stuff where the smoothness of the final finish is not critical. It'd probably be fine for any place which is not exposed to UV rays. It's kind of a colored "Super-glue", especially with it using a MEK solvent to carry it.

BayerMaterialScienceNAFTA.com

I would think it would be more brittle than either Zinga or the POR products.

For floor pans, boot decking, chassis work, etc, it should do fine. I don't think I'd use it any place where you had to merge exterior paint with it. MEK can do funny stuff to existing paint texture and adhesion.

Stretch · #12 07-06-2013, 12:33 PM

Thanks Mike - I thought the point of this Hammerite "undercoat" stuff was that it could be used with other paints...

...may be I need to RTFM again...

Mike D · #13 07-06-2013, 01:10 PM

Yeah, well, using it with other paints is not the same as achieving an automotive class smooth finish.

Graham · #14 07-06-2013, 11:08 PM

Stretch,
Hammerite is not sold in our part of the world. But I often see it mentioned on UK sites. If you Google Hammerite vs POR15, it seems it is not an equivalent product. But really, I have no idea. Like many solvent based paints, use with care and make sure ventilation is good.

We can buy rust paints in box stores. For example, Tremclad or Rustoleum seem mainly aimed at kind of jobs you have used Hammerite for. Hard to know if Hammerite fits into that group, or is more like POR15. Hopefully someone else might know.

Stretch · #15 07-07-2013, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

Stretch,
Hammerite is not sold in our part of the world. But I often see it mentioned on UK sites. If you Google Hammerite vs POR15, it seems it is not an equivalent product. But really, I have no idea. Like many solvent based paints, use with care and make sure ventilation is good.

We can buy rust paints in box stores. For example, Tremclad or Rustoleum seem mainly aimed at kind of jobs you have used Hammerite for. Hard to know if Hammerite fits into that group, or is more like POR15. Hopefully someone else might know.

I think it is much more like Rustoleum.

I've just found some other interesting stuff =>

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