Hood hinge pocket rust - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

firstdiesel · #16 12-09-2013, 01:24 PM

Well, that brings up a whole new level to my repair dilemma.

Both sides are pretty well rotted. I have wire wheeled the inside and out, used a grinder, and in some cases, I have cut off all the rust fragments at the ends back to fresh metal. The idea of that being a "crumple zone" does bring an interesting thought to the mix.

I have beat on all the rockers to check for weakness and inspected them inside where I could. Floor pans to the rockers all look painted nice and secure, though I haven't pulled up every ounce of sound damping. This looks to be the worse area of the car and it appears to be from someone trying to bondo it as waterproofing.

I am not sure if I have the means to fabricate an entire door pocket or the know how in order to cut one off a donor car and weld it properly. I haven't really been able to find donor cars around here, and when I do, they are usually picked clean or too far gone.

The reason I asked if it was structural is that if I could cut out an access slot in that area then I could treat the surface rust inside. But as Stretch pointed out, I would have to weld a repair in that area and might just be opening a can of worms due to the lack of access to treat the welds. I'll have to look into Dinitrol.

Good discussion guys, thanks. I hope it is not too far gone, I've invested much into the transmission and I just rebuilt the whole subframe; springs, hydros, bushings, etc. I just got the ride to where I like it + I've ordered timing chain and equipment.

firstdiesel · #17 12-09-2013, 01:32 PM

Good point Smoker. I have wire wheeled and ground all the areas of rust I can access. I definitely wasn't going to treat it without exhaustive prep work. I don't want it coming back any time soon.

I personally don't think the hinge pocket area is the only thing standing between life and death, in theory it should bend away or crease in order to decrease impact to the interior of the car, but the passenger foot area in the cabin certainly could make a difference between serious injury or not. Not an expert, just a thought. That being said, if the hinges pulled off, where would the hood go?

When I tug and push on the pocket area, it seems to be solid. It is not moving where the hood attaches near the battery tray or wire bundle.

Diesel 911, that is pretty much what I am facing with more rust towards the door, but the front area looks similar but not as far down as yours went. How is it holding up?

Stretch · #18 12-09-2013, 02:09 PM

I'm not trying to start a panic - I just want people to be aware of what they are doing. The hood hinge areas do look to me like they provide additional rigidity if there was a frontal crash - to me they look like they are designed to be tough rather than to crumple. I don't think they are part of a crumple zone.

@firstdiesel - why not post up some pictures of what you've found to far? Get some more specific advice.

firstdiesel · #19 12-09-2013, 02:16 PM

I'll take pictures of the driver side. The other ones are already posted at the beginning of the thread. I don't know how to post them like you do to the actual thread, I just upload the pictures using the forum post.

I might be able to send them via PM if you want a closer look.

EDIT: Nevermind, it doesn't appear that you can attach pics in a PM.

What service do you use to upload your pics?

Stretch · #20 12-09-2013, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdiesel

I'll take pictures of the driver side. The other ones are already posted at the beginning of the thread. I don't know how to post them like you do to the actual thread, I just upload the pictures using the forum post.

I might be able to send them via PM if you want a closer look.

EDIT: Nevermind, it doesn't appear that you can attach pics in a PM.

Sorry I'm half asleep - I missed those

If you click on reply at the bottom of the page you get a box that has more controls than quick reply. Just above the text area there's a little yellow box with a picture of a mountain and a sun in it - click on that to add in the URL of the image (image needs to be on a server somewhere)

So for example for this type of repair =>

You could grind off the rest of the rust and treat it with POR-15 then fold in a piece of sheet metal on top of the existing structure - weld higher up so you don't just vaporise the rusty metal.

The best job would be to cut away the outer part of the pocket area and then repair the inner part with new metal and then replace the outer bit of course.

I have a feeling - from these pictures - that further scraping in the bottom of the gutter will make more holes. I hope I'm wrong but it looks pretty gone.

Stretch · #21 12-09-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdiesel

...
What service do you use to upload your pics?

All of my pictures here are loaded onto the peach parts site. If you hover your mouse over the attached image you can right click to copy the URL

firstdiesel · #22 12-09-2013, 02:58 PM

Thanks Stretch. I understand how to do it now.

Looks like I have a long road ahead, or $$ to pay someone else.

Stretch · #23 12-09-2013, 03:28 PM

I think so too

This picture says it all to me =>

There is evidence of lots of rust and potential problems both at the top and the bottom of the structure.

I'd like to be wrong

I do get very negative about rust

So please wait for comments / help / advice from others who have been here before as well.

firstdiesel · #24 12-09-2013, 03:42 PM

I'm not throwing in the towel just yet. I know others have seen it, but I do have a limited time frame if its going to happen.

Hopefully others will chime in.

Graham · #25 12-09-2013, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdiesel

Good discussion guys, thanks. I hope it is not too far gone, I've invested much into the transmission and I just rebuilt the whole subframe; springs, hydros, bushings, etc. I just got the ride to where I like it + I've ordered timing chain and equipment.

Don't go overboard with the repairs on an old car. You CAN fix the hinge pockets with POR and even although it wont add strength, it will halt the rust and prevent water leaking into car, if applied properly. Several of us have done it. We don't know if those hinge pockets add any structural strength, but most of the metal is still there - just the bottom where seams are seems to have holes. I doubt that is a big deal.

I have used POR for over 20 years, not only on cars, but also in marine applications. It works. You need to remove loose scale and surface rust, but grinding back to bare metal is not needed or even recommended. If in any doubt - call the experts at POR - they are quite helpful.

I obviously disagree with Stretch on this. But lets leave it at that.

I would be concerned about the rust near the A-pillar and firewall. I am sure you can find someone to cut out any bad material and do a weld repair. My guy (Last Chance) would have it done in a jiffy

Just get her done

Diesel911 · #26 12-09-2013, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

I think people need to be careful with the JB weld epoxy filler / fibre glass / metalised filler route.

I think people need to realise that from the 1960s all Mercedes cars have been built with monocoque / unibody constructions. This means the structural integrity can not be thought of in terms of "structural" or "non structural". Some parts of the structure are stiffer and thicker but if you remove too much of the structure you end up with a fragile egg shell.

For me good quality welding of new metal is the only option.

I understand that for others this causes a dilemma - it caused a dilemma for me - I had to go off and learn to weld. Pain in the arse!

Although this next bit of advice will almost certainly make more work...

...I think that before anyone decides to treat anything with POR-15 they should get an angle grinder and a wire brush attachment and push this up against the area of concern. If your wire brush attachment travels quickly into the car and you are covered in a cloud of rust dust you will most certainly be upset. It is not nice - but you need to face reality of the situation - rust is not strong - papering over the cracks with filler will not fix the problem. Epoxy does not stick to rusting metal for long - neither does POR-15.

The above is true but if you have been driving around with a buch of Rust Holes you are certainly no worse off then you were before by doing a none Welding Repair.

The Person doing the work who is there and can see more details than a Photo can offer is the best judge of what to do.

When My Rear Cross Member cracked due to rust the repair I did was with Welding. Some said I should get whole other Car. But, my point is that was not a spot for a JB Weld Epoxy repair.

Stretch · #27 12-10-2013, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

The above is true but if you have been driving around with a buch of Rust Holes you are certainly no worse off then you were before by doing a none Welding Repair.

...

Yeah I know and times are tough for many people at the moment - we can only do what is best at the time; taking into consideration what you find and what resources are available.

firstdiesel · #28 12-10-2013, 10:41 AM

Thanks, guys. I'll have another look at it and will probably go with the POR approach. Though I know that I would like to go Stretch's route, but it is just not realistic at this point. Water outside and dry inside would be just fine with me!

If later on down the road I can find a TD in nicer shape, and can purchase it, I'll have one hell of a nice donor car!!

If I don't get in too much of a time crunch, I'll take pics.

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