Need Just A Simple Subwoofer - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

EricSilver · #1 08-08-2006, 11:14 AM

Car:
1995 E320
Stock Head Unit
Alpine 6-Disc CD changer in trunk.

Shocking as it may sound to many of you, I am happy with my stock stereo in my car. I only want to add a small subwoofer to supplement the ones in the doors, and to enrich the overall sound.

I am not willing to cut holes in the rear shelf, nor remove the rear speakers. The only option appears to be a small sub inside the passenger compartment, perhaps in the open space under the left passenger seat, assuming that space is indeed empty.

Because it is covered with accoustically transparent carpet, I would be willing to drill some holes or cut a single, larger circular opening in the front of the rear seat, to port the bass into the cabin.

If that is feasible -- or if it is not feasible and I nonetheless want to add an interior sub -- how do I do the wiring, and can someone receommend good, small, powered subs?

(I figure if my computer's subwoofer sounds great, I should be able to find something equally nice, and compact, for my car.)

Thanks.

bfisher · #2 08-08-2006, 01:53 PM

I'm interested to see if anyone has any suggestions for you. I'm pretty sure you are SOL (@#$% out of luck). My 95 E300 could not handle changing any of the components (including adding a sub) due to the way it was wired (don't remember specifics, but it's not traditional +/- speaker wiring... (the negative floats or is 12V or something like that). I had to replace the whole setup... (per several custom install shops).

Also, under the rear seat in my car - there was not enough room to put a sub in. And you can't cut into the back of the rear seat since the gas tank is there.

Finally - a car sub is very different than your PC sub. Road noise makes a huge difference. If I tune my sub to sound great when I'm driving on the highway, and then stop and listen to it - it's very bass heavy. If I tune it to sound perfect when I'm stopped - it's very thin for bass when I'm cruising on the highway. My assumption is road noise makes the difference (when I replaced my sound setup, I used dynamat extreme and cascade dampener everywhere - it helped a lot - but there is still some unavoidable road noise)

Good luck - I'm interested to see if anyone has any good ideas for you...

iwrock · #3 08-08-2006, 04:34 PM

I had the Infinity Basslink wired up into my old 400E. It gave me deep clean bass and it was loud enough where you could hear it in the cabin. Not only that, but I wired it off the rear speakers, and the battery was in the trunk, so it was like 20 minutes of wiring.

EricSilver · #4 08-08-2006, 08:28 PM

I was assuming a splice into the wires leading to the rear speakers, upstream from the amps. Tracing those wires backwards from the amps, both of which are in the trunk, seemed to be the way to go until I took a look at them, with their snap-in wire connectors, and realized there is too much going on to tackle the matter without a wiring guide.

My knowledge of subwoofers is limited, but it seems a matter of tapping the left & right speaker wires from the head unit, and pulling in a power line. The power part is easy. The wiring, according to bfisher, looks like it will be difficult, if not impossible.

bfisher: So are you saying the MB speaker wiring voltage or some other issue would cause the sub to not work?

I was hoping to slip something like this flat Kenwood under my front seat and be done (see photo).

bfisher · #5 08-09-2006, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricSilver

bfisher: So are you saying the MB speaker wiring voltage or some other issue would cause the sub to not work?

I would take it somewhere and have them tell you. I was told by 2 shops that my 95 E300 I had would require a full rewire job. I planned on replacing speakers but keeping head unit. They said it was impossible - the amp puts out a floating negative signal or something like that...

In the end, I did a full rewire job and replaced everything (head, speakers, wire, etc) - never tried to just replace the speakers. There were 2 stereo setups in 95 - maybe the other setup is different?? I'd take it somewhere and find out.

Good luck

warcloud17 · #6 08-09-2006, 11:26 PM

Ok first off, your ohm load is what bfisher is talking about. Some head units can only handle a certain ohm load. If you go to high you dont get the power, and if you go to low you blow the unit. The sub, well I really don't know what to tell you. There are ways, but you have to get pretty crazy, trust me I know. The chances of you wanting bass that much are pretty slim. Check into getting a few 8" subs cause they can fit in really small places. Also if you just want a little bit of base just try replaceing your back speakers, with a another with the same ohm load.

EricSilver · #7 08-10-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warcloud17

Also if you just want a little bit of base just try replaceing your back speakers, with a another with the same ohm load.

That sounds like what I will do, but I I doubt I will get much, if any, extra bass from the same size speakers.

Are those subs in my doors? Are they worth changing?

bfisher · #8 08-10-2006, 03:40 PM

they call them subs... but they are really mid-bass. You can replace them (I did) but they still won't give you the thump of a real subwoofer.

The problem is that none of the speakers are big enough to really give you a subwoofer sound (I think the largest speaker in the car is ~5.25"). You need at least a 6x9" to start getting some better bass... and a 12" sub to really start getting bass.

You can cut out your rear deck area for speakers - and replace existing speakers with something larger. I cut mine out using a dremel to fit new speakers - but put a 12" sub in the trunk for my bass.

EricSilver · #9 08-10-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfisher

You can cut out your rear deck area for speakers - and replace existing speakers with something larger. I cut mine out using a dremel to fit new speakers - but put a 12" sub in the trunk for my bass.

I am willing to do that. Are there wires in the deck that I need to avoid?

Which Dremel tool bit did you use for the cutting?

bfisher · #10 08-11-2006, 07:45 AM

Around the rear speakers - the only wires I remember are the speaker wires themselves. I think I used a diamand cutting wheel (if I remember right). The dremel cut through the metal so well... all I could picture was my fingers in front of it!

Before you cut anything - I would verify the speakers will work with your amp, etc. Minimally I would connect them and test them before I cut anything...

Getting the speaker covers off was a pain - no screws (that I remember), lots of tugging to work the clips free.

EricSilver · #11 08-11-2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfisher

Around the rear speakers - the only wires I remember are the speaker wires themselves. I think I used a diamand cutting wheel (if I remember right). The dremel cut through the metal so well... all I could picture was my fingers in front of it!

Before you cut anything - I would verify the speakers will work with your amp, etc. Minimally I would connect them and test them before I cut anything...

Getting the speaker covers off was a pain - no screws (that I remember), lots of tugging to work the clips free.

Sounds good, and I think I can handle it.

Now that it appears I will be doing some cutting after all, I might have an easier time cutting through the first aid shelf and mounting something there instead of, or in addition to, the existing rear speakers. Something to study and think about over the next week or so...

Nate · #12 08-11-2006, 01:30 PM

OK, here goes nothing...

You dont need rear speakers. This has been hashed out about 10,000 times on www.caraudioforum.com (watchout for immaturity, runs rampid over there).

The highlights of the argument are.

you dont need rear speakers, because you dont want the soundstage behind you. Basicly, unless you turn around at a concert, you're wasting money...

Run upgraded speakers (tipicly 4 ohm) in the frount. Cheap speakers with high sensitivity ratings are great for headunit only power... Better speakers require more power.

For a subwoofer, you could run a tangband 8" off a cheap 2ch amp bridged...

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-854
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=269-160

then, just make a box for it, or have an audio shop do it (be warned, they're usually $100 or more)

Cheap bass boost, and you're spending about $150 for the parts and building materials.

~Nate

anthonyb · #13 08-11-2006, 05:04 PM

And here's my take:

Buy a powered sub, like a basslink (I actually have a crappy well-used third hand bazooka tube), install it in your trunk, run power and signal wires back (you may have to splice off the rear speakers since you have the stock radio), and dont' worry about anything else. I didn't cut my rear shelf, and I left my rear speakers in, and I still get decent bass fill from the sub. It's not perfect, not the best SQ, but I didn't have to cut anything and I got the low-end fill that I was looking for.

Another benefit to using the bazooka (even though they are crappy subs), is that you don't have to drill holes for mounts. I use two bungee cords, hooked on a lip on the left side of the trunk floor, and that keeps the sub more or less in the right place for corner loading.

EricSilver · #14 08-15-2006, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonyb

And here's my take:

Buy a powered sub, like a basslink (I actually have a crappy well-used third hand bazooka tube), install it in your trunk, run power and signal wires back (you may have to splice off the rear speakers since you have the stock radio), and dont' worry about anything else.

Bazookas are definitely on my list of simple solutions. If the reviews at CircuitCity.com are reliable, it seems most people consider them perfectly good. I didn't think, however, they would shoot through the trunk. But on reflection, I figured the rear speaker openings, even with the speakers in them, must be transparent enough for the low bass frequencies to get through.

The hard part would be identifying the correct signal wires to splice into, since there are wire harnesses, with a bunch of wires, that plug right into the amps. But once that is done, it should be an easy install.

EricSilver · #15 08-15-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate

You dont need rear speakers. This has been hashed out about 10,000 times on www.caraudioforum.com (watchout for immaturity, runs rampid over there).

Run upgraded speakers (tipicly 4 ohm) in the frount. Cheap speakers with high sensitivity ratings are great for headunit only power... Better speakers require more power.

I am inclined to agree. However, while testing the stock system today, it seems the "sweet spot" in my car -- where the front and rear speakers are perfectly balanced in an eveloping surround sound effect -- are 3 bars positve (to the right) each, for the Fader, Bass and Treble head unit settings.

95% of the music I played sounds generally accurate, and I can hear front and rear equally. The remaining 5% is split between music that sounds spectacular, and that which sounds awful. Awful because it contains low end bass that the existing speakers cannot reproduce.

To perfect the sound, I am no longer focused on speaker size, but rather on cone material. I assume the stock cones are all paper, and I am looking for same-size replacements with cones made of other materials. (If I could find wood woofer cones for the doors I'd be in heaven.

)