W210 speaker question - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Big Jim · #1 02-27-2008, 09:31 PM

Hello all, since i installed a pioneer head unit and speakers in my W126 the wife wants a better sound in her 97 E300D. I would like to keep the factory head unit and cd changer (non Bose) and try to upgrade the speakers. Will this improve the sound at all? It looks like it has 6 1/2 inch speakers on the back deck. any advice is appreciated. thanks in advance... jim

KarTek · #2 02-28-2008, 09:41 AM

I don't know how easy it would be to convert it to the Bose system. I'm pretty happy with my stocker... It has like 6 or 8 speakers and it goes plenty loud and boomy in such a quiet car. I'm usually pretty critical of audio and I have no complaints.

BoomInTheTrunk · #3 02-28-2008, 03:56 PM

ok this is easy as to the weakest link in most stock systems are the speaker. My advice is to get some decent not great because the headunit is not great but decent speakers. check these out crutchfield says that this is what most customers buy for that car.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SONY-XS-GT1625A-6-5-2-WAY-CAR-SPEAKERS-XSGT1625A_W0QQitemZ160212341620QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160212341620&_trksid=p3286.c57.l1288

the speaker grills are removable so they should fit. just make sure the stock speakers are 2 ohm speakers because then installing after market speakers can ruin some stuff. hope this helps. if you need more help just hit the forum up

Big Jim · #4 02-28-2008, 05:07 PM

guys, thanks for the info. Boomin, i am going to order the speakers that you linked for me. i might add some new rear door speakers also. thanks again.... jim

Big Jim · #5 02-28-2008, 07:52 PM

I crawled into the trunk and looked around at the rear deck. It seems there are two 6 1/2 inch speaker cutouts in the metal deck on each side. It looks like it was prefabricated for the bose system. I only have one speaker on each side, mounted in the outboard holes. They are 6 1/2" speakers. the upper deck is blocking about 25% of the speaker output. I am curious as to what the bose system looks like back there. it looks like I could mount 4 speakers back there but the upper deck would block about 40% of the inboard speaker output. The speakers in there read part # 210 820 11 03 or 02. It says High quality loud speaker made in germany. from below I saw a big diode or something and a spool of thin copper wire hooked up to it. Any of you 97 W210 bose system guys familiar with your rear speaker setup. Thanks Jim

Zeus · #6 02-28-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Jim

I crawled into the trunk and looked around at the rear deck. It seems there are two 6 1/2 inch speaker cutouts in the metal deck on each side. It looks like it was prefabricated for the bose system. I only have one speaker on each side, mounted in the outboard holes. They are 6 1/2" speakers. the upper deck is blocking about 25% of the speaker output. I am curious as to what the bose system looks like back there. it looks like I could mount 4 speakers back there but the upper deck would block about 40% of the inboard speaker output. The speakers in there read part # 210 820 11 03 or 02. It says High quality loud speaker made in germany. from below I saw a big diode or something and a spool of thin copper wire hooked up to it. Any of you 97 W210 bose system guys familiar with your rear speaker setup. Thanks Jim

Big Jim -

My $0.02 - The Bose system is different from the stock system, as you have ascertained in your post above. Both the stock and Bose system speakers are very good quality speakers. It is unlikely you will improve upon them by replacing them unless you buy a top end speaker, think $$$. Often people will buy a new speaker and think it sounds 'better' or 'brighter' but that is usually due to a bias towards a certain frequency in the new speaker, rather than an improved sound overall. A lot of newer component speakers feature large tweeters in comparison to the woofer cone they are paired with and you get an unbalanced output in terms of highs vs. mid-highs, lows, etc. A balanced system should reproduce sound neutrally.

The Bose system has carefully matched amps and speakers. Uncommonly low impedance and variable outputs are factored in. So it isn't easy to 'upgrade' this system short of gutting everything and starting from scratch. If you do order new door speakers, I'd try and match the stock speaker parameters in terms of impedance and mounting diameter. If they don't fit perfectly, you will lose bass response. If the impedance is too high, again you will lose output and the amp has to work harder (which generates heat).

I wouldn't bother trying to install more speakers in the rear shelf. Adding more subs without adding more power (amps) is simply splitting the signal from the existing amp to a greater load, you're not gaining anything. There is plenty of bass from the Bose system.

The only thing I really find lacking about the Bose system (I think it sounds quite decent) is that there is no high-range tweeter mounted in the front dash or door pillar. The dash speakers are for a telephone and the pillar tweeters are disabled. This results in the high frequencies (which are directional to the human ear in comparison to low bass frequencies, which can be emitted from anywhere) being beamed directly into my shins from the door speakers. So I've had to crank up the treble in the head unit to compensate. I'm looking into trying to hook up the door pillar tweeters, which would help quite a bit I think.

Good luck, and let us know what you come up with...

C.

Big Jim · #7 02-28-2008, 09:14 PM

Zues, your two cents were worth alot more than two cents. thanks for the quick and very informative response. This gives me a whole new perspective on the project. Any suggestions on speaker models that would improve the sound somewhat? I am not rich, but I dont mind spending tall money on speakers that will improve the sound as opposed to replacing the head unit and the cd changer in it. Thanks....Jim

KarTek · #8 02-28-2008, 09:19 PM

Jim,

I can take some shots of my Bose system tomorrow if you're interested in how it's set up.

Zeus · #9 02-28-2008, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Jim

Zues, your two cents were worth alot more than two cents. thanks for the quick and very informative response. This gives me a whole new perspective on the project. Any suggestions on speaker models that would improve the sound somewhat? I am not rich, but I dont mind spending tall money on speakers that will improve the sound as opposed to replacing the head unit and the cd changer in it. Thanks....Jim

No problem, you're welcome. Well, my opinion is that it is not really worth changing the speakers unless they are physically damaged. They are quality speakers. Same with the Becker head unit.

Do you have an iPod? This is the unit I bought - see link below - the sound is excellent. It basically plugs into the back of your stock head unit at the CD port and becomes the CD changer. You can control your iPod via the head unit controls. For $75, it is an excellent product.

http://indashpc.org/new/ipod_adapters/grom-ipod-mb.html

Using my iPod (music ripped at 192 AAC), the sound is very good. I really think the only problem with the Bose system is the lack of high-end reproduction at the front, closer to ear level.

If you are set on replacing speakers there are two main factors to consider -

1) impedance. I *think* the Bose door speakers are 2 ohm. You would want to match that, it's a rarer resistance, so could be hard to find.

2) power handling. Most speakers have dodgy technical specs advertised. You have to look very closely. For many, especially polypropylene, the power handling can be very high and the speakers are less efficient (require more power to reproduce a given sound level). The stock speakers are quite efficient and if you replace them with a speaker requiring more power, you will lose headroom and also overall output.

Good luck,
C.

BoomInTheTrunk · #10 02-28-2008, 11:02 PM

those coils on the speakers are most likely crossovers to keep the speaker from distortion.

KarTek · #11 02-29-2008, 08:13 AM

Jim, looking at my Bose system, I too only have the speakers mounted from the top, in the outside holes. Those inboard holes appear to be covered with foam. The only thing I can see is that the speaker magnet/basket assembly is filling the hole but it only sticks out about 3/4 inch.

There also must be an amplifier somewhere but I have no idea where they hid it.

BoomInTheTrunk · #12 02-29-2008, 01:53 PM

well if there is an amplifier than it is under the back seat or behind the molding in the trunk on the side wall of the trunk.

Big Jim · #13 02-29-2008, 05:34 PM

you guys are great. thanks for the offer for pics and the description of the bose rear deck setup. we are not into the ipod thing yet but perhaps in the near future we will go that route. zues, you make alot of sense and i think we are going to leave everything stock for now. i can save that money and try to match and buy a winter tire and rim that was destroyed the other day when my wife ran over something on the highway. the tire got slashed badly and it blew a hole right thru the inside of the rim. well thanks again guys......jim

Down South · #14 03-26-2008, 09:22 PM

The amplifier is on the left side of the trunk under the side paneling.

KarTek · #15 03-27-2008, 10:03 AM

That's interesting... I had that whole side off when I replaced the shocks and I never saw the amp... I saw a bunch of wires that were not connected but nothing that looked like an amp...