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  #1  
Old 05-03-2008, 01:00 AM
TheDon's Avatar
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I need Base!

Here is the deal, I upgraded the old factory speakers for some MTX speakers in the rear(stock size) and some alpines up front...

but I have little bass response... I need subs!

I was fooling around at best buy with what they had(slim pickings at my local best buy, the one two towns over has a nice car audio corner). I was testing out a sub box with two 12" Kenwoods (I do not remember the specs)

but it had a nice hit and would respond well to all of my music. It was also running a small Kenwood amp.

But, I do not want that massive of a sub box in and suffer loss of trunk space and lower MPG's.

The associate said if I want the same power as two 12" kenwoods I should look into the Alpine Type R 12" sub. He said it would put out the same, if not more, power/sound when paired up with the proper amp.

I also know of a guy in my neighborhood that makes custom sub boxes so I could probably get one made to fit in the trunk and not suffer a loss of trunk or loose performance from the sub.


Here are some links to the Subs

The Alpine Type R

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7057383&productCategoryId=abcat0302037&type=product&tab=7&id=1108124880979#product detail

The Kenwood

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8226617&type=product&id=1166840602883


educate me.. I've got a bonus and govt rebate check thing coming in and I need to buy myself something for once...


Searching ebay yields the Alpines at a nice price of $100-250... not bad. I just don't trust anyone on ebay. Paypal offers some protection but.. I am still cautios. Best Buy has the Type R for $230 !!! ebay price average.. $120 ish.... jeeezeeee

Last edited by TheDon; 05-03-2008 at 01:33 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-03-2008, 05:43 AM
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the kenwoods are like the same ones i have except mine were the model before those. here is a link on ebay of the ones that i have. They have better ratings than the ones you were looking at and guess what they are cheaper =]. http://cgi.ebay.com/2-KENWOOD-KFC-W3514DVC-12-DVC-1500W-SUB-NEW-PAIR-BONUS_W0QQitemZ110249381577QQihZ001QQcategoryZ18803QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

oh and i just read up about your phobia of ebay but these guys are good i have bought alot through them. they are a store on ebay not a private individual.
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  #3  
Old 05-03-2008, 07:54 AM
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The subs in their ad have spinning grills. What does that do? Sorry, Joe, for hijacking.
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  #4  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:26 AM
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hmm two Kenwoods putting out 1500w or one Alpine with a putting out 1500W's that goes two hertz lower than the kenwoods... decisions

I think I might just go with the Alpine since one will do the job of two 12" subs

now.. what amp to power this beast
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  #5  
Old 05-03-2008, 11:52 AM
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I've been reading the reviews for the Alpine.
Many have listed that if you power them over 400 watts they start to sound like garbage (single) and just power then at 400 watts.

I am also amazed at how much over MSRP best buy sells these things for.. The Alpine Type R 12" sub MSRP's for $110... best buy is charging $230 each... marking things up to the max just like the monster HDMI cables..


The Kenwoods Boom linked me to look like a deal, they are dual voice coil and etc.. I think I'll go with those two kenwoods and just wait for someone to advise me on an amp and enclosure.But it looks like this million buy dude is jacking up the shipping charges... I just sent my vogtlands via parcel post for $40 and those weight 50 lbs.... seriously


The spinner speaker grills are free and would protect the subs in my trunk from stuff in it.. so if i buy them I'll just deal with it.The sub boxes I have found on ebay for dual 12" subs( in a sealed box) will fit in my trunk but... they are slanted at the rear thus rendering a flush fit with the bulkhead impossible.. One such box's depth dims are 12" at the top and 15.5" inches at the bottom... which would cause it to stick out. I think I am going to go custom for this. I want a box that will sit flush with the bulkhead and then extend out and make a nice flat edge where the trunk opening starts behind the rear window as well as extend out to the sides making it look like the trunk starts where the sub ends... ya dig?

The ebay sub box
click here

Dual Kenwoods

possible amp


another concern is the power output by the alternator since the AL117X only puts out 65 amps. The amplifier I found consumes 40a which would probably cause issues with the other electronics in the car. My option is to upgrade to either the 80amp of the 115amp(If I can find it) and do the rewiring or I could just not get subs but where is the fun in that

Last edited by TheDon; 05-03-2008 at 02:57 PM.
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  #6  
Old 05-03-2008, 05:36 PM
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those kenwoods that i said get are 1500 watts each not both together. as for the alternator thing this is what i did. al129x the saab alternator with a total of 4-5 farads in capacitors. even with the alternator upgrade you still will have lights dimming. after you put capacitors in the dimming will be gone and the bass will hit harder and cleaner. and here is a link to a good capacitor

http://cgi.ebay.com/POWER-ACOUSTIK-PCNC-3F-5-Farad-Car-Audio-Capacitor-Cap_W0QQitemZ230247593060QQihZ013QQcategoryZ75388QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262

i have also gone through these guys and are also good. they are a store on ebay not individual.

For all your wiring needs get it here thats where i got it

http://search.stores.ebay.com/HiFi-Sound-Connection-Car-Audio_car-audio_Car-Audio-Accessories_Wiring_W0QQfcdZ2QQfromZR10QQfsubZ3630957QQftsZ1QQsaselZ27162071QQsofpZ0

they are cheap and shipping is decent.


ok a tip for using ring terminals, most likely you will use them and here is what i have to say about them, they are great but only if you have them crimped correctly. If you dont have a high wire gauge crimper find someone you does and have them crimp everything for you. dont try to crimp it with a pair of pliers it wont work, also if you want extra protection solder the crimped terminal to the wire that way it have no way at all of coming off. As for amps give me a price range that you are willing to pay, but first find out what else you are going to have to buy so you will have your project fund in your mind better.

oh and i just looked at that box, but guess what you can build that for about 23 dollars. Home depot 3/4 inch MDF is like 22 dollars for a 4x8 sheet. If you have a table saw or more preferably a circular saw than you can build it. if you have taken geometry then you can build a good box to your subs spec and you can make it fit the trunk better.

Last edited by BoomInTheTrunk; 05-03-2008 at 05:41 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-04-2008, 12:10 PM
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I wish I had wood working materials to do so, then I would make a box to fit properly. I'm going to see if my friend's friend can build me one since I see him building boxes all the time.

A capacitor, what do they do?

I noticed those kenwoods are 1500 each, impressive. I of course will have to upgrade to the Al129x alternator, problem is finding one. I'll post in parts.

I have wire crimpers but no soldering iron, I could crimp and heat shrink the ends as well.

amp wise, I want something that can power both of them but still retain my bank account.
Also, what about the head unit output? Is that a concern? It's a $120 sony head unit from wal mart.
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  #8  
Old 05-04-2008, 06:18 PM
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I would look for some JL Subwoofers. 1 JL12W0 is more than enough bass for my friends W123. And its only being powered by 300 Watts. Remember, its not about the power, its about the design. The single 12 is more than enough to rattle the hell out of everything, and when its turned down, its more than enough to provide that nice deep thump he wants.



Are you looking for bons shaking bass, or deep lows to compliment the highs in you system?


My current system is 500 Watts, and it sounds awesome. Ask anyone who has heard my car.
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  #9  
Old 05-04-2008, 06:26 PM
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I'm looking for a HiFi system setup. I do like ground shaking bass, but not all the time.

ebay is not returning any good hits for that sub.. only two on there right now and one is shot while the other is used(I don't like used electronics)

I think I'll just stick with the dual kenwoods

someone has a line on an Al129x alternator for me so stuff will come together.I also need to get in contact with my friend about a sub box
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  #10  
Old 05-04-2008, 06:40 PM
iwrock's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
I'm looking for a HiFi system setup. I do like ground shaking bass, but not all the time.

ebay is not returning any good hits for that sub.. only two on there right now and one is shot while the other is used(I don't like used electronics)

I think I'll just stick with the dual kenwoods

someone has a line on an Al129x alternator for me so stuff will come together.I also need to get in contact with my friend about a sub box
Its cool, as the W0 has been out of production. I would still stick with a JL subwoofer. Their subs are some of the best out there....


If you want newer, find a JL 12W3 or 12W6. Maybe even a 12W7 if you can afford it.


I have had Kenwoods, Alpine, MTX, Rockford Fosgate, Elemental Designs, JBL, Kickers, Barics (The Square things work!), Xplods, Polks, Audiobahns, Phoenix Gold, and many others.... I keep on coming back to JL because of their quality and sound.
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  #11  
Old 05-04-2008, 07:08 PM
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the JL 12W3 is around $130 on ebay

the JL 12W7 is way out of my price range

as is the JL 12w6

I still think dual kenwoods is a better deal... but I would save weight with a single JL and could get away with a generic sub box

I'll think that over since I do not want to load my trunk up with audio components and suffer a loss of space and MPG's



I think just one JL sub will suffice in a single sealed box.

http://cgi.ebay.com/JL-AUDIO-12W3-12W3v3-4-12-SUBWOOFER-NEW_W0QQitemZ270232120167QQihZ017QQcategoryZ18803QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

what kind of amp to power it? Capacitor needed? I will still upgrade to the Al129x


what is the performance difference between : ported, sealed, and bandpass?

Last edited by TheDon; 05-04-2008 at 07:30 PM.
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  #12  
Old 05-04-2008, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
the JL 12W3 is around $130 on ebay

the JL 12W7 is way out of my price range

as is the JL 12w6

I still think dual kenwoods is a better deal... but I would save weight with a single JL and could get away with a generic sub box

I'll think that over since I do not want to load my trunk up with audio components and suffer a loss of space and MPG's
I bet you can build a nice box for a single 12 inch subwoofer (if you know what you are doing) that will hit as hard as the 2 12s in a cheapo box...



It is all in the box design. My single 12 hits harder than my friends 2 12 inch Punch P2s.
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  #13  
Old 05-04-2008, 07:34 PM
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Well, I don't have any wood working tools at my disposal. I do know that displacement and volume is key

Suboofer Enclosure types and info - Crutchfield
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  #14  
Old 05-04-2008, 08:55 PM
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ok lets talk capacitors, what they do is send the amps a low ohm signal. Unlike a battery where there are alot of ohm and capacitor is very low like under 1 ohm. The capacitor acts like a battery holding a charge but unlike a battery it can unload all its power in very sort term. When you are listening to music and you hit a bass note your amp will starving for power, the battery cant keep up with the demand because of the high ohms. well the capacitor will give it the power it needs. In other words no dimming head lights, and tight clear bass, not mushy bass. In a part of a song where there may be repetitive hits of bass the battery along cant keep up so you might not hear all those hits you might only hear a single hit. The more farads a capacitor is the more power reserve it has. The general key is 1 farad every 1000 watts but every car is different. I have the al129x and 4 farads but when i turn it up and it is really hitting the radio will sometimes shut off because it has to little power. I have about 2500 watts worth of amps in my car but even then 4 farads still dont cut it. Its one of those things you experiment with. You can always add more in series or split of the line and run in parallel if you use two amps. If you get one make sure you read up on how to charge them or ask later when going to install. If charged the wrong way they can kinda blow up. another thing to keep in mind every time you disconnect the battery you will have to recharge them. I just use a test light and use the fuse terminal that is under the hood. the fuse light has enough resistance to keep it from charging to quick.


Now for the headunit its all about the volts out of the pre-outs. the more volts the clearer the signal. 3 is average 4 is better and 5 is the best. most likely yours is 3 and it will do dont worry about it. Another thing to help is to turn on the crossovers on your headunit so you wont play bass over the speakers, let the sub play that it will make the quality of the speakers better. i set mine to 60 hertz. If you have any more questions just ask.
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  #15  
Old 05-04-2008, 09:14 PM
TheDon's Avatar
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Thanks man..

I'm really torn between two subs in a nice custom box with the amp mounted all fancy like or just one sub sitting there in a box

I like nice and since the dual kenwoods are the same price as one JL or Type R.. I am really considering that route.

I talked with the guy in my area that does custom boxes and he says he can make me one to my specs for like.. $300.. screw it.. I wish I had my tools

A single JL it is in a sealed box for that nice,crisp bass.

My current head unit, a Sony CDX-GT10W has no specs online(I can't find the box it came in). It does have a selective sub out. I just need to give it power when its off so it retains its settings, I haven't gotten around to it since I installed it last year.

Since I've settled on a sub, alternator,a generic sealed sub box, and will get a capacitor.. what about an amp?
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