Sagging Headliner - Can it be "Re-foamed"? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Steve M · #1 09-28-2011, 08:26 AM

I have to do something about a badly sagging headliner on the 96 C280. The dealer parts guy (who knows how cheap I am) wouldn't even give me the price of a new headliner. He suggested spraying some 3M glue in there, which I know won't work because the foam is disintegrating. When I told him that, he asked if I could take the fabric off, clean the foam off the board and the fabric, then put new foam on the board, and glue the original fabric onto the new foam.

Has anyone ever tried anything like that?

Also, if I clean off the old board, could I just reinstall it without fabric? What does it look like underneath all that crumbly stuff? I'm wondering if I could just paint it or something.

MTI · #2 09-29-2011, 01:40 PM

The disintergrating foam is the culprit for sagging C-Class (W202) headliners and is pretty common. I have read of some owners that have stripped out the old headliner and replaced it with their own fabric/covering. A "top shop" or auto upholstery place may have more options.

leathermang · #3 09-29-2011, 08:44 PM

I went to WoodCraft and bought some one inch rare earth magnets...
I placed them around the headliner and it no longer touches my hair...
A good temporary fix until you decide what to do permanently... mine have been there four years... working fine...the headliner was perfect.. just pulled tight from the edges so many inches were lost.

RANDY P · #4 10-03-2011, 04:54 PM

$350 installed for a suede headliner in my C36. End of problem.

Tried glue, thumbtacks nothing satisfactory.

rjp

Steve M · #5 10-04-2011, 07:48 AM

I put several thumbtacks on this one a few months ago. From the front seat it looks ok; from the back it looks awful. If I continue with this temporary measure I may paint the thumbtacks to match the headliner.

My headliner is mostly vinyl (same as on the sunroof sunshade and the visors), with cloth on the edges that matches the pillars.

A couple of years ago I redid the sunshade, which had failed first. It wasn't that tough to do (though I can't say it looks as smooth as it should), as the panel can be removed from outside the car. I just put the beige headliner fabric from JoAnn fabric on it, after cleaning up the board. When I reinstalled it I realized that it was thicker than what was originally on there, but I felt it was tolerable.

In researching this recently, I have come to learn that MB headlining material is 1/8 inch thick, and American headliners are typically 1/4 inch. This can cause problems if you redo cars with sunroofs in the thicker material.

BTW, some online sources and resources include:

Headliner Express Home Page
World Upholstery & Trim: USA Manufacturer and Distributor of European Auto / Car Upholstery (Apparently the most current url for World Upholstery)
GAHH: Convertible Tops, Auto Interiors, Quality Convertible Tops

From the headlinerexpress site, I gather that German vinyl is available, which in conjunction with 1/8 in. foam is the way to get the original look and fit. I still don't know if it is possible to clean the crumbling foam off of the original headliner, and reinstall it over new foam. I would doubt that it's possible. I must have thrown the material from the sunshade away, otherwise I could figure it out.

If I pull the headliner out, I can either recover it myself, or take it to a professional. Putting 1/4 inch material on it shouldn't matter, but I am concerned about the sunroof, so I would like to take the thick material off of the sunshade while I'm at it.

jsebastian · #6 10-05-2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve M

I have to do something about a badly sagging headliner on the 96 C280. The dealer parts guy (who knows how cheap I am) wouldn't even give me the price of a new headliner. He suggested spraying some 3M glue in there, which I know won't work because the foam is disintegrating. When I told him that, he asked if I could take the fabric off, clean the foam off the board and the fabric, then put new foam on the board, and glue the original fabric onto the new foam.

Has anyone ever tried anything like that?

Also, if I clean off the old board, could I just reinstall it without fabric? What does it look like underneath all that crumbly stuff? I'm wondering if I could just paint it or something.

I have an 86 560 sec with the sag problem-I decided to remove the entire thing-fabric and the foam insert. I peeled the fabric away and the foam has this kinda sticky earwaxy residue. I tried scraping, but the material is tenacious and I found myself damaging the foam. However, I still think it needs to be removed because I can still scrap it with my fingernail. In other words, I don't think it will support any repair. I then decided to try to stabilize the residue by brushing (a hand held scrub brush) a layer of carpenter's wood glue, working it in with the brush. After letting that dry, I tested its strength: I could no longer scrape it with my fingernail, and a test tack of 3M heavy duty whatever it is securely was held in place over the glue layer. I have not finished this project and I am not a chemist, so I have no info on how long this will last. So please try this at your own risk..good luck BTW I went to Jo Ann fabrics and bought new headliner material, since the old stuff has that same residue on it...

Steve M · #7 10-05-2011, 02:18 PM

It occurs to me as I read these posts that I may not be using the correct terminology, so let me say that this post concerns the sliding interior panel underneath a glass moonroof.

I just removed this panel that I had put new fabric on a couple of years ago. The stuff from Joann was too thick. I feared that it had broken the mechanism, but when I removed it I found that my problem related to a part on the back of the panel itself. On either side of the panel is a thin (maybe 1/4 inch) strip of plastic that runs from the front of the panel to the back. It hooks in and helps to secure the original vinyl, as well as a thin cloth strip that actually slides on the metal underneath. One of mine had come out and gotten scrunched up, either because I did a bad job of installing it, or the extra thickness of the fabric compared to the original vinyl was just too much.

I think I'm going to remove the headliner fabric, and put something thinner on there. I still don't know if I'm going to remove the whole headliner. Since my moonroof isn't broken, I won't be forced to, other than for fixing the sag.

jsebastian · #8 10-05-2011, 04:58 PM

I could also have the wrong terminology; I thought the headliner was the entire "ceiling" of the car. So, I was writing about that area. BTW how do you remove the headliner sliding panel under the sun/moon roof? I got the whole rest of the headliner out, but this small panel stumped me...

Thanks,

John

Steve M · #9 10-05-2011, 05:16 PM

I believe that you are correct in referring to the covering on the ceiling of the car as the headliner, with the exception of that sliding piece. I had been referring to it as a sunshade, but that term apparently refers to the curtain that moves up and down inside the rear window, rather than back and forth underneath the moonroof.

The panel underneath the glass moonroof actually comes out (rather easily) through the roof itself (at least on my patient, a 1996 C280). From inside the car: manually slide panel back, electrically pop sunroof up to vent position, pull bottom edge of rubber bellows out of slides they are attached to, and pull the slides inward (toward center of car) to detach them from whatever it is that's gripping them (they are detached from the car at this point). Label these slides so that you know left, front, top, etc. Then electrically slide the moonroof back. From either inside or outside the car, pull panel forward and out towards the front of the car.

On mine you then have to then pry out two plastic gills, and the plastic handle, without breaking them. You then have a small version of what you've dealt with before.

jsebastian · #10 10-05-2011, 05:31 PM

Thanks for this info; I'll try it out.John

Steve M · #11 10-22-2011, 03:09 PM

I decided to take it apart, and then decided to do an amateur recovering job. The results are ok.

To get the headliner out I removed the obvious things (handles, domelights, miror, etc.) that are in the way. Also the windlace at the tops of the doors and along the covers for the A and B pillars, which I removed. The procedure in Alldata called for removing the C pillar covers and the front passenger door, but I chose not to. To get the front dome light off, you have to identify the spots at the front (windshield side) where you need to insert screwdrivers to release the spring clips. The mirror was tough - I got it by curling the fingers of one hand to try to pry from the front (windshield side) between the mirror and the headliner, and then yanked it. The screws need to be removed from the visor clips, but the clips themselves aren't removed until the board is out of the car. A single clip attaches the rear of the headliner to the roof right behind the rear domelight. At the front of the sunroof cutout is a metal bar that has to be pulled up. On each side of the sunroof are two metal clips that are released by pushing a screwdriver into a slot on the bright metal rails, and then pull down. I mangled most of them. They are part number 140-784-00-35, Headliner Spring, $2.20 each at the dealer. Then the bar attached to the headliner frame at the back of the cutout needs to be pried forward. At that point the headliner is sitting on the C panel covers and just needs to be pulled forward, and maneuvered through the front passenger door.

After taking the old covering off, I decided that it might be difficult if not impossible to clean it up to the point that it could be reinstalled on the board with new foam (not that I ever figured out where I could get foam anyway). I used a wire brush to clean up the board. The sunroof sunshade, which I had redone 2 years ago with fabric that was too thick, was very tough to clean up because the glue was holding very well. I used a wire wheel mounted on a drill. I used two yards of headliner fabric for the main board, and a yard of marine vinyl for the sunshade. Fabric and glue totalled about $65 at JoAn Fabric. I did a lot of crunching and cracking while removing and reinstalling the vents in the sunshade. If I had broken them beyond repair, I would have gotten new ones from Headlinerexpress.

There is a metal ring around the sunroof cutout that is glued to the headliner. Mine was mostly detached by the time I got ot out of the car. I used Seal-All to re-glue it, as well as the fabric which was wrapped around the back of the board (I didn't want the spray glue flying around once I had my main work done). I was afraid that the metal ring would come off again as I put the board back into the car, but it didn't.

The problems I had putting it back together were minimal. I got the mirror in by sitting in the passenger seat, angling the driver side of the mirror spring into position, and then slammed up on the passenger side to put it in. I actually did this by putting the end of a hammer handle against the mirror base, and slamming my hand against the head (a tip I found on these forums). I also had a hard time getting the B pillar covers right. They have sliding pieces that allow the seat belt height to be adjusted. When replacing the cover, you have to look up from underneath to be certain that the round plastic sticking out behind the cover engages the bolt sticking out from the mechanism.

The pictures show the car, aclean spot on the board, the old and new fabrics with the clean board and sunshade, a new clip on the ring, and the profile of the visor clip.

If I was doing this again, I would get three yards of 1/8 inch fabric from an online source, such as Headliner Express, and 4 new clips, and have everything together before starting.

HeadlinerExpres · #12 12-30-2011, 09:09 AM

What can i do to help!

Im here to Answer Any Questions you may have, Have a Safe New Years. Bill

aTOMic · #13 12-30-2011, 07:45 PM

Damn that Hell-foam!

Speaking from the position of one who has faced the foam dragon thrice, $350 is reasonable. If you decide to fight the beast, be very sure to cover the entire interior with a tarp, lest the foam pollute your upholstery.

In high school I had a car we called the Casbah. The comically sagging burgundy headliner was held up by a carefully arranged array of brass tacks, giving a rippling diamond-tuck appearance. Great, until an opening appeared and loosed the FOAM! Then it was a sticky mess. The car was a '80s Dodge product! Coincidence? You be the judge!