W111 Fintail Headliner Replacement Tips Needed

[Squiggle Dog]

I'm about to install a new headliner in a 1965 W111 220S fintail for a friend. It's an aftermarket headliner from Turkey. It was folded up to fit inside the shipping box, and even after having it spread out for a week, it still has many deep creases and wrinkles. What's the best way to get them out?

When installing, I understand how the bows go in. For the pinchwelds around the doors and windshields, I imagine I just have to stretch out the material to where it looks good, then glue it on, and cut off the excess material?

[Squiggle Dog]

So, I've had the headliner laying out for a few weeks hoping the wrinkles would come out. I think that installing and tensioning it will work out most of the wrinkles. I also have a handheld steamer for stubborn wrinkles.

I started to install it today and discovered that the fit is NOT EVEN CLOSE. The location of the bow loops is way off. There is no way that the aftermarket headliner will work. Putting it next to the original, I can tell that the new one is very different.

To compare, here is the bow spacing of the original:
1-2: 34cm
2-3: 33cm
3-4: 32cm
4-5: 31cm

And the bow spacing of the new one:
1-2: 25cm
2-3: 26cm
3-4: 35cm
4-5: 21cm

The seller says he sent one for a W111 4 door sedan, but also he seems to think that the W110 4 door uses a different headliner, even though they are the same. He's sending another one. It will be interesting to see what the replacement is like.

Here is another case of aftermarket parts not working. Trying to save money has once again cost even more time and effort. Now the job is delayed for at least another month.

I'm also not happy with how the perforations in the vinyl aren't punched out completely like the originals. It just looks cheap.

[Squiggle Dog]

Here is what we are looking at. Laying out the headliner.


I put in the bows.


Some of the perforations are not punched out completely, which gives a clogged appearance.


Here is the bow spacing of the new headliner.


Here is the bow spacing of the old headliner.

[Squiggle Dog]

The bow spacing is way off.


Wow...


The new headliner is smaller than the old one.


The old headliner has extra material at the front corners.


The C-pillar coverings are different shapes and sizes.

[whunter]

Check with your local upholstery shops; most can make a new one, using the old as a template.


.

[Squiggle Dog]

Originally Posted by whunter

Check with your local upholstery shops; most can make a new one, using the old as a template.

That may be plan B. My friend didn't want to spend more than $100 on a new headliner, but if the replacement that's sent also doesn't work, he may have to wait a while and save up for a better one.

[HeadlinerExpres]

Hi Guys, I can help answer some questions in regards to your issues related to the installation of your headliners. I professionally install them for a living and can help walk you through most applications.

Let me know how I can help in any Way.

Bill

[bipolardave]

Can't help you out, but thanks for posting this.

I've seen the Turkish headliners on eBay for $100 or so and thought about getting one for my W115. Now I see every reason not to.

[Squiggle Dog]

Originally Posted by HeadlinerExpres

Hi Guys, I can help answer some questions in regards to your issues related to the installation of your headliners. I professionally install them for a living and can help walk you through most applications.

Let me know how I can help in any Way.

Bill

Thanks, Bill. I will let you know. We're just waiting on a correct headliner to arrive. We might have to ditch this seller and go with a GAHH or World Upholstery headliner (or maybe even Mercedes itself). But then, with both of us being unemployed and saving up to move out of state, the project might have to go on hold for a bit longer.

[Squiggle Dog]

The replacement headliner arrived today. It appears to be the correct type, however, there are the same quality issues with the perforations.


Also, the front corners are missing the A-pillar sections.


There is a purple line stained on the visible side of the headliner.


Something seems to be wrong with the stitching. Some of the bow loops are heat pressed on, while others are not.


The rear bow loop is partially detached.


So, basically, this one isn't good, either. My friend is totally frustrated and in a bad mood now. I told him that he should just send both headliners back and ask for a refund, but he doesn't want to spend an extra $150 on a quality headliner... If there is anything more frustrating than working on your own car, it's working on someone else's car.

[Squiggle Dog]

The seller of the headliner was very understanding and he refunded my friend's money. Today we ordered one directly from Mercedes-Benz and it will take about a week to arrive from Germany.

After shipping, it was only twice the price of the aftermarket one ($300 VS $150), but I imagine the quality will be exponentially better. If it was my own car, going directly to Mercedes-Benz would have been my first choice. We have learned the hard way first with the windshield seals, now with the headliner.

In contrast, he purchased a new URO accelerator pedal for $20 that looks every bit as good as the ones Mercedes wants $100 for--but we have yet to install it.

[Squiggle Dog]

The new headliner arrived today from Mercedes-Benz. It cost less money than both World Upholstery and GAHH. It matches the quality of the original and shipping from Germany was very reasonable in both time and price. The perforations are very clean and the bows are stitched on like the original rather than being sloppily heat-pressed. Here is another case where a few extra dollars spent on a quality product the first time would have saved much hassle.

[Squiggle Dog]

I have the headliner in place. I pulled the sides (bow listings) as tight as I felt they could go without the headliner tearing. Most of the wrinkles are gone and I have a feeling they might relax with time.


Unfortunately, some of the other wrinkles worry me. When I did the area around the front windshield, it was difficult to get the material tight, even with cutting flex lines on the other side of the pinch weld. It seems as though the material should have more side-to-side tension, however I can not pull more tension on each side without causing wrinkles by the bows and the material around the bows is pulled tight.

So, I pulled the headliner tight around the windshield pinch weld and tried to make sure it didn't bunch up. As you can see, it's wrinkly up front because it seems there is not enough tension there. But, I don't see a way that I can pull any more tension up there without causing more wrinkles. I know the visors and rear view mirror will hide this area, but I prefer to do things well.


Also, I have wrinkles at the rear where the last bow perches on the retaining hooks. I pulled the material tight on the sides, so it doesn't appear that it's bunched up, but I am wondering if maybe I stretched the material when I was pulling it back to get the last bow on the hooks. Might these wrinkles relax or steam out, or is there a safe way I can shrink the sagging areas?


The C-pillars were difficult to do. I had to cut a few flex lines to get the material to lay flat on the curves. Despite pulling the material tight, they have wrinkles in them, most noticeably at the bottoms. I am hoping these wrinkles will come out.


Does anyone with experience in headliner installation have any advice? I have pulled sections down and retacked them in efforts to make it look perfect, but this is the best I am able to do. I am really, really hoping that using a handheld steamer will remove the wrinkles and that the headliner may shrink and smooth out with time. Still, I would have preferred to do a wrinkle-free installation.

This is rather a difficult job and I am doubting my ability to correctly install it. It looks better than what was in there, and maybe it will have to do, but I sure was hoping to make it look as good as the factory did. I just don't have the knowledge or experience to do a great job, and since this is someone else's car, it makes me nervous. Working in the rain ads to the challenge.

Up next... windshield seals...

[wbain5280]

What adhesive do you use for the 'C' pillars?

[Squiggle Dog]

Originally Posted by wbain5280

What adhesive do you use for the 'C' pillars?

I didn't use any adhesive on the main area of the C-pillars, but on the pinch welds I used contact cement which I purchased from an upholstery shop. I brought them a small metal paint can which they filled.