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  #1  
Old 09-02-2004, 12:31 AM
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Question about 240D starting

Looked at a 240D today. Car started on the 12'th revolution while hot. Is that not rather a long time before starting? I did not touch the throttle pedal at all while it was turning. Engine seemed good apart from that. No noticable smoke either on startup or under accelleration and idled well, with no unusual sounds apart from the normal clatter. I noticed the small "choke" thingy on the dash under the instruments in the 12 o'clock position and I didnt adjust it. Does that affect how it starts?

It's a 78 auto that shifts surprisingly well, and has working electric windows and sun roof. Couple of fender dings, left front and right rear but other than that body is in good shape with not a speck of rust. Full service records from new to 1995. Owner wants 1500 for it and didn't seem to mind having a mechanic look at it.

My only concern is the potential state of the compression because this could possibly be a low mileage car that's spent most of it's life doing short local trips.

Curious about the forums reaction to the prospect. Especially other 240D owners.

- Peter.

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2000 GMC Sonoma
Formerly...
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S
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  #2  
Old 09-02-2004, 12:49 AM
DCM DCM is offline
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I have a 77 240d automatic and it was hard starting until I changed the glow plugs. Had never done it before but it was easy.

Found that one glow plug was bent badly, apparently by the mechanic that had changed them years ago. It was a little hard to get out because it was hard to get a wrench on it.

Anyway, it now starts immediately. Maybe one or two revolutions at most. It has a little over 213,000 miles on it.

This would be a cheap fix to try.
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  #3  
Old 09-02-2004, 09:13 AM
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I would also suspect GP's normally, but it was doing it when warm then there may be other problems. Could be anything from bad fuel to low compression. Don't you hate answers like mine. :p
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  #4  
Old 09-02-2004, 11:46 AM
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pj,

Did you wait anytime for the GP to heat? How long after the engine was shut off (hot) did you try to restart it?

However, if you tried to restart the engine immediately after it was shut off, It should start immediately with out waiting for the GP to heat.

Whats more important though, is how it starts when cold.

P E H
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  #5  
Old 09-02-2004, 11:14 PM
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Unhappy Ambiguous answers

Actually I dont mind ambiguous answers. The car had been sitting for about a year before the current owner bought it with the idea of fixing it up. But he decided it was more than he wanted to take on and bought another car. He had replaced fuel lines, drained and cleaned the tank, worked on the breaks and front suspension and had just bust something in the vacume system before I went to see it so he was trying to figure what it was he'd done to stop it switching off with the key. Quite funny actually.

I was actually being driven home in my KIA dealers courtesty shuttle after having my 02 Kia Rio POS towed in because it's fan fell off!!! when I saw this 240D for sale in a yard. I figured I've really had enough of the Rio which I have decided is a re-incarnation of a Yugo and out of desperation did what I'd swore I'd never do again. Namely, investigate a Mercedes before having the cash immediatly available.

Now I'm enduring the mental anguish of trying to figure out how to come by the money by honest means...

- Peter.
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2000 GMC Sonoma
Formerly...
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S
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  #6  
Old 09-03-2004, 12:00 AM
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gimme a low-tech 240D
 
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Talking

Get 3 diesel nuts in the same room and you will always hear 5 different opinions ..... and just how fast is the cranking speed? If the starter motor and/or battery are tired then that's another factor.
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  #7  
Old 09-03-2004, 12:16 AM
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Glow plug relay or fusible link?

Maybe check the glow plug relay or the 80a fusible link on the firewall?
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  #8  
Old 09-03-2004, 04:16 AM
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gimme a low-tech 240D
 
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Yeah but that fusible link is a start/no-start deal which shouldnt slow down the starting. When my fusible link corroded away I bypassed it with bailing wire so I could get to the dealership for a $2 replacement part.

PJ, something else that nobody has mentioned here is valve clearances.... If valve clearances are off, this will directly effect hot start performance. Hell, that's probably the first thing I'd check on any car that I just bought.

- ask a vague question and you will get vague replies. Is the glow plug light doing anything funny? If the car is hot, it should only come on for a second or two..... if cold, then it should stay on for awhile and then go off.

And never buy a diesel you havent started when it's stone cold!! I once walked away from looking at a car without even starting it. Putting my hand on the hood told me the seller had warmed it up before I got there. Said to the seller that I'd be happy to come back in a day or two when the car was stone cold.
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  #9  
Old 09-03-2004, 09:39 PM
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Could be a fuel problem (injectors, clogged filters, etc) or even a tank vent problem (remove the fuel cap and see if it starts easier) in addition or instead of the suggestions listed above.
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  #10  
Old 09-03-2004, 10:38 PM
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I think the key lies in the clause, 'changed the fuel lines'. I suspect there is a loose fuel line allowing some air into the system and causing the pump to have to draw up some fuel before starting.
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  #11  
Old 09-03-2004, 10:53 PM
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Might go back and look at it again

Thank's all for your input. At first I was suspicious. It's a 78 with only 67 thousand showing on the odometer. But then the records that I saw only went up to about 52 thousand by 1995 when the second owner, an elderly lady picked it up. It had been driven very little since then - or so they claim. It was a SoCal now AZ car and the body is completely rust free, though both the left front and right rear fenders have dings in them. Paint is faded and the dash is cracked and the drivers seat collapsed but the rest of the interior looks decent enough that it could indeed have been a car that did not see much use. Except as I said for shot haul trips.

Normally I'd be suspicious of such a car becuase I know short trips means more startup wear per mile than long ones but this engine seemed to have no smoke at all which cant be too bad. The car had sat for a year before this guy bought it so there might be a lot of little things wrong with it and indeed the valve clearances might need adjusting. From the little I saw of this guy he could certainly have messed up a fuel line install. He was looking for the fuse that cut the power to the fuel pump to see if it had shorted out and maybe that's why it wasnt shutting off. Didnt seem to know that the vacume system had anything to do with it.

Anyway. This is Phoenix so the car will likely go for close to the 1500 he's asking for it. As I've said before this is a high priced market. So I'm going to wait until next week and another payday and see if it's still around and then maybe go back and talk to him again.

- Peter.
__________________
2000 GMC Sonoma
Formerly...
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S
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  #12  
Old 09-11-2004, 07:44 PM
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1976 300D- Same Thing

I've noticed same problem on my recently purchased old 300D. With a cold morning startup, I wait for glowplug light to go out (...and wait, and wait)- turn the key with accelerator halfway down, and it fires on the first hit, giving me confidence that my GP's are all working well. Yet, when fully warmed up, whether I glow it or not, it cranks at least a dozen times, then comes to life with a loud clatter and plenty of smoke. Just this morning however, I seem to have discovered the cure. Drove car to 10 or more yard sales- so lots of warm starts. I found that by flooring the accelerator while cranking, it would start on the third or fourth crank without pre-glow, and without the big noise and smoke signal. I'm not sure if this indicates that there is a problem- it just seems like it needs lots of fuel while cranking when warm.

By the way- at one of the yard sales, I found a case of 24 cans of "Wynn's Diesel Conditioner" for 10 bucks!!!
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  #13  
Old 09-13-2004, 05:07 PM
I miss my MBZ
 
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(in the 80deg. summer weather here...) my '82 240 takes more than a couple revolutions to get going...with no pedal.
If a add a little "accelerator" (dont you dare say "throttle" in diesel discussion =) while cranking it catches on the first or second hit. I dont like doing this b/c I dont want the engine to rev more than necessary before the oil pressure gets up.

Never checked the valves (soon), currently at 260k w/ timing chain changed at 160k. Italian tune-ups daily =)


-John
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  #14  
Old 09-13-2004, 05:24 PM
webwench
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj67coll
...It's a 78 with only 67 thousand showing on the odometer... the drivers seat collapsed but the rest of the interior looks decent enough...
I hate to ask this, but does it make sense for a car with this little wear to have a collapsed driver's seat? Or a man who's been fixing it up to be unaware that the vacuum system has something to do with the car shutting down?
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  #15  
Old 09-22-2004, 03:49 PM
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Hot Starting Trouble- Duramax Connection

Greetings all. I just got back from getting my oil filter situation fixed- (see Filter Foibles thread)- now all set right- they did it with great finnesse! Anyway, I asked one of the mechanics if he knew why my car starts great on GP's when cold, but starts real hard when hot. He yells "hey Gary- gotta question for ya'"!! Out comes Gary- a grizzled old bearded mechanic who evidently was their Diesel expert. He promptly said he's seeing a lot of the same thing on the Dura-Max's, and the problem is actually the starter. So I said, well, listen to my starter (car was still warm)- I turned the key and it winged the engine over at least 10 times before it fired- starter sounded great to me, but Gary said- "I'd say it's not turning over fast enough- it fools a lot of people with Duramax's- put a new starter in and it fixes the problem". I find the theory at least intriguing. I'm not about to replace my starter right away, as I said above, if I floor the peddle whilst cranking, it will fire on third or fourth crank, which is good enough for now.

Anyway, I talked to Gary for awhile, while another guy was doing my filter- he was a "fount" of Diesel knowledge, having once worked for the Canadian National Railroad repair shop before they shut it down- then on to some trucking firms, now I think he's just working at this shop as a retirement hobby. They say talk's cheap, and he sure could talk- told me stories about back in the 50's when every Diesel engine coming into Canada had to be sold by one guy who had franchise rights on all makes except Detroits. He sure could spin the yarn, but I think I'd trust him with my Injector Pump if ever needed.

Any other opinions about slow starters???

Dave

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