new ideas to better mix fuel/air in the combustion chamber - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

coachgeo · #1 09-06-2004, 07:37 PM

This is a long read and yes... it is about a gasser but..... but hmmmm... interesting idea. Grovey fuel mixing.

Would love your comments. Anyone got a dremmel tool want to experement?

leathermang · #2 09-06-2004, 08:17 PM

What does ' side valve' mean ?

#3 09-07-2004, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachgeo

This is a long read and yes... it is about a gasser but..... but hmmmm... interesting idea. Grovey fuel mixing.

Would love your comments. Anyone got a dremmel tool want to experement?

I've got a dremmel , you got a spare head

Brian Carlton · #4 09-07-2004, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

What does ' side valve' mean ?

I'm guessing here: Maybe a two stroke engine?

JT8Mech · #5 09-07-2004, 01:44 PM

Side valve is the old Briggs design that has a sort of elongated "D" shape cylinder head and the valves are driven by a cam INSIDE the crankcase and come up beSIDE the cylinder (AKA side valve). I purchased a copy of the patent and I'm gonna' try it out on my 'tiller. (Cheepest motor I got that I can PLAY with!) I guess as long as I don't try to sell it for a profit I'm legal?

Anybody out there know about patent laws? I really don't want to do anything that's illegal!

Brian Carlton · #6 09-07-2004, 02:06 PM

I think of that engine as a "flathead". Is this the same thing as "sidevalve"?

R Leo · #7 09-07-2004, 03:12 PM

Those groves in the cylinder heads are remarkably similar to the radial trenches in the piston tops on a 617.952!!

coachgeo · #8 09-07-2004, 10:44 PM

bump back to page one. Love to here more comments on this.

coachgeo · #9 09-08-2004, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Leo

Those groves in the cylinder heads are remarkably similar to the radial trenches in the piston tops on a 617.952!!

whooowwwww. picture please!

I gotta see this. Are there any other diesels or "Gasp"

gassers that use such trenches?

rwthomas1 · #10 09-08-2004, 08:37 PM

Its a very interesting idea. Radial grooves cut into the squish band area to allow the trapped air/fuel mixture to be pressed out, and up into the central combustion area to better facilitate combustion. If this works this guy will be pretty wealthy. I don't think it applies to diesels since combustion doesn't start until the fuel is injected. Since the air/fuel mixture isn't premixed I don't see how the grooves would do much. RT

psfred · #11 09-08-2004, 08:56 PM

Air swirl in the combustion chamber to promote combustion isn't exactly a new idea. Main problem is keeping the fuel mist in the air instead of spun out onto the piston and head, where it won't burn.

There are all sorts of tricks out there, and since lawn mower engines are probably the last extremely low compression, sloppily engineered engines out there, almost anything will improve them (the typical suburban 1/4 acre lot push more produces more pollution in unburned hydrocabons and CO per week than the cars the family uses, this is why they were banned in S. Cal. a few years back).

However, a flathead engine is just about useless for anything but smoke and excess fuel consumption -- no way to get the air in and out. European engine designers dropped them in the 30's.

Peter

coachgeo · #12 09-09-2004, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psfred

...There are all sorts of tricks out there, and since lawn mower engines are probably the last extremely low compression, sloppily engineered engines out there, almost anything will improve them....
Peter

Don't loose sight of the point though that he has done this with cars now and gotten simular succesfull results.

coachgeo · #13 09-10-2004, 01:59 PM

Further search of the patent seems to show His patent claims that increased efficiency engine is "adapted to burn fuel that is 1/2 gasoline and 1/2 diesel" hmmmm.

Patent

P.E.Haiges · #14 09-11-2004, 09:42 AM

Sounds like the old "wasn't invented here syndrone". Would the highly paid engineering staff want management to know some guy in a work shop came up with a better engineering design than them?

P E H

psfred · #15 09-11-2004, 10:52 AM

Combustion science is partially "black art" -- it's very hard to see what's going on in there and hence difficult to model and determine whether or not a change is making a difference.

The great bane of wedge-head designs is quench -- the fire goes out when the flame front touches metal, and the thin "wedge" where the piston and head are close quenches the flame, at least initially. The result is wasted fuel and excess heat transfer to the head and piston, along with copious amounts of unburned hydocarbons.

I suspect what is going on here, if indeed there is something, is that the quench area is being greatly reduced -- the gooves carry the flame deeper into the quench area. There is also the possibility that he is increasing the swirl some, etc, but that is going to take some high class engineering to figure out.

All engines have quench area, hemi's the least, wedgeheads the most, and some much more than others (GM seems to be the worst for some reason). Promotion of clean burn and better scavenging of exhaust gases will greatly improve the engines performance.

Wait and see -- the coming fuel shortages will provide a large incentive for fuel efficient engines, and not all that much has been done yet.

Clean emissions will be the bugbear here -- for instance, the Dodge Neon 16v engine bends vavles if the timing belt breakes because, appearently, the notches in the pistons required to avoid that doubled the unburned hydrocarbon and NOx produced.

Peter