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  #1  
Old 09-07-2004, 11:31 PM
Coming back from burnout
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: in the Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,274
Red face We often overlook Fuel Pump damage--Low Sulfur Fuels and bad fuel (85 300D)

This is for all the posts I have read where people have complained of poor performance and have tried replacing injectors, compression tests, rebuilding cylinder heads, adjusting valves, looking for clogged Alda lines....Please check your FUEL PUMP. Today's Low Sulfur fuels and sometimes inconsistent fuel quality can do a number on your Fuel Pump!!!

I figured my 85 300D was dead in May after I ran it down to .5 quarts of oil--everyone said the engine was dead and I had to double pump the gas pedal to get power. Even a reputable indy said the engine was so loud that it must have been held together by the steel filings and debris from the loss of oil incident and that it might self destruct any day and throw a rod through the block..
I wentt out and bought a "new" 87 300D and fixed it up I took the 85 300D for one last farewell run because it was the only one I had with AC on it--on a 700 mile trip that took me through West Virginia and up and down some pretty tough mountains--and I when i got back I noted two things: I hadn't lost one drop of oil, and the car never gave me trouble on the mountains, as long as I double pumped the gas, and it still did 90 and at times was very quiet..
I got curious about the 85 300D last week and pulled my pan and found no engine debris. I did an oil analysis and it was okay. No scrap metal indicating engine damage.
I pulled my Pump and sent it in for rebuild.
Today I got my answer from the rebuilder: The Alda was badly leaking, and two of the cylinders were really caked and solidly carboned and the remaining three needed new parts--the pump was junk---the rebuilder mentioned tha today's Low Sulfur fuels (no lubrication) and inconsistent fuel quality are the Death of many pumps he sees..suddenly all those posts where people have complained of poor performance and have tried replacing injectors, compression tests, rebuilding cylinder heads, adjusting valves, looking for clogged Alda lines came to mind--so all I can add is check your PUMP

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  #2  
Old 09-07-2004, 11:42 PM
JimmyL's Avatar
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sunnyvale, Texas (DFW)
Posts: 9,673
Carrameow,
Since I'm having some of the problems you mention, let me sit down first and then ask you a question. What did your pump rebuild situation cost? First, please excuse the $ question, as sometimes that can be considered invasive and rude, I'm just trying to prepare for this possible option. If you prefer not to discuss $, I completely understand.
Thanks,
Jimmy
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  #3  
Old 09-08-2004, 12:51 AM
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A new pump can be found for about $175, just the lift pump not the IP...
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  #4  
Old 09-08-2004, 07:36 AM
Coming back from burnout
 
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I never rebuilt it

I got an estimate for $2000!!! i told them to forget it. I am ordering one from a scrap car at an Indy
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  #5  
Old 09-08-2004, 08:25 AM
Waitn For The Bus All Day
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: south east pa.
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Somewhere I read that all diesel fuel will be sulfur free by 2006. I guess we all have fuel related problems to look forward to.

Cheers,

Bill
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  #6  
Old 09-08-2004, 09:09 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 550
Mercedes IPs are lubed by engine oil. Low sulfur fuel isn't a problem (in terms of lubrication) for your car. Your IP probably was just on its way out - not helped by the low oil episode I'm sure. I'm glad you fixed the problem so cheaply.
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  #7  
Old 09-08-2004, 09:13 AM
Waitn For The Bus All Day
 
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Location: south east pa.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjohn
Mercedes IPs are lubed by engine oil. Low sulfur fuel isn't a problem (in terms of lubrication) for your car. Your IP probably was just on its way out - not helped by the low oil episode I'm sure. I'm glad you fixed the problem so cheaply.

I think they're talking about the fuel pump not the IP...

Cheers,

Bill
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  #8  
Old 09-08-2004, 01:08 PM
LarryBible
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Yes the rotating assembly of the IP is lubed by engine oil. The barrels, however, are susceptible to wear due to low sulfur fuel. The first sulfur decrease was about '92 or so. At that time, I bought a case of cheap, but new 30W oil. I put just a few ounces of oil with every fill up. That pump is still in good shape.

With even more sulfur coming out of the fuel, you will definitely need to add 2 or 3 ounces of oil with every fillup. It doesn't sound like much, but it will be enough.

Good luck,
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  #9  
Old 09-08-2004, 01:40 PM
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Didn't someone say that vegetable oil can be used as a lube? Think i read that from this forum.
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  #10  
Old 09-08-2004, 01:58 PM
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fuel pump wear andlow sulfur diesel

Part of the certification REQUIRED for any new diesel fuel sold (changed manufacturing process) is a test for wear/scuffing of injector fuel pumps. Additives are added to the fuel as required at the refinery to meet this important characteristic. MBZ injections pumps ARE NOT subject to wear from low sulfur fuels since the driving parts are lubricated by engine oil. The plungers do not wear since there is no metal-to- metal contact ever.

The MBZ injection pumps ARE sensitive to trash and water in the fuel. Buy good fuel, keep it clean and dry, and at least once a year use diesel doctor to keep water and bacteria out of your fuel and clean injector nozzles.
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  #11  
Old 09-08-2004, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kebowers
Part of the certification REQUIRED for any new diesel fuel sold (changed manufacturing process) is a test for wear/scuffing of injector fuel pumps. Additives are added to the fuel as required at the refinery to meet this important characteristic. MBZ injections pumps ARE NOT subject to wear from low sulfur fuels since the driving parts are lubricated by engine oil. The plungers do not wear since there is no metal-to- metal contact ever.

The MBZ injection pumps ARE sensitive to trash and water in the fuel. Buy good fuel, keep it clean and dry, and at least once a year use diesel doctor to keep water and bacteria out of your fuel and clean injector nozzles.
This man has spoken with great knowledge pay attention.

Yes as the first reduction of sulfur started there were some initial problems due to lack of proper or enough of lub addative in the fuel, but this was quickly corrected.

Yes if you want to add some extra lub to the fuel the best bang for the buck is some veggie oil from the coner grocery. Me I just use a B2 premium (49 cetane) and truck on, I will however be installing a Cat 2 micron fuel filter from here to put on the MB this fall.

I have had one on the VW TDI since he first developed the adaptor for the VW almost 2 years ago. This is a really well made adapter kit which can be adapted to the MB very easy. The Cat fuel filter is a 2 micron absolute filter and was designed to flow fuel for big V8 diesels for about 10 to 20 thousand miles, and should last at least twice that for a small 4 or 6 cyl diesels.

Last summer I cut one open after 12,000 miles on the wife's Jetta and only about 1/3 of the filter was dirty. I figure the filter should last real easy in the 1.9L turbo at least 20,000 miles, or maybe even 30,000 miles with a fairly clean fuel.
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  #12  
Old 09-08-2004, 08:29 PM
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My MB injection pump guy laughed at the $2,000! Luckily you didn't get "had". You still ought to have the wrecking yard one calibrated. Its $250.00
The tolerance requirements are pretty close, and considering the cost of fuel these days, it might be worth looking into.
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  #13  
Old 07-18-2005, 12:19 AM
RAYMOND485
 
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Injector Pump

1984d Mercedes =
Adsitco.com 1-800-521-7656 Has Rebuilt Injector Pump $700.00 Plus
Core $200.00 Asked For Catalog
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  #14  
Old 07-18-2005, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kebowers

Part of the certification REQUIRED for any new diesel fuel sold (changed manufacturing process) is a test for wear/scuffing of injector fuel pumps. Additives are added to the fuel as required at the refinery to meet this important characteristic.

snipped
There is no lubricity spec in North America. They are talking about adding one to the ASTM spec (D976?). The FIE (Fuel Injection Equipment) manufacturers association suggests using fuel with a maximum HFRR wear scar of 520um, (Bosch prefers 460um) but tests have shown that at least 50% of the diesel in the US does not meet that spec. It is expected that once ULSD hits the market in June 2006, that percentage will rise.
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  #15  
Old 07-18-2005, 12:59 AM
Legal Eagle's Avatar
Running on Homebrew
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 89
Even 2% biodiesel will make a substantial difference in lubricity of low sulfur dino. B100 is even better.
I run my Benz on B100 in the main tank and SVO in the "hot" tank for the warmer months and either SVO or SVO/BD in the hot tank in the cold with dino in the main.
The engine loves the stuff an druns MUCH quieter. When properly adjusted and the linkage tightened up the way it should be there is no drop in power of fuel economy.(of course SVO is free, but brewing Biodiesel costs a bit more)

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