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  #16  
Old 09-10-2004, 08:48 AM
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I started my SDL at 12 degree's last winter without a block heater. Not to mention it was in sorry shape and covered by 6in of fresh snow. A diesel in good shape with a good battery will start. Most all diesel additives say they will keep fuel fron gelling. Power Service (I think) even claims they will pay for the tow if the fuel gells. I am confident that one of the newer diesel's will start, to as cold of temps as any gas car would start at.

Now on the topic of a block heater, yes you should use them in the winter they are good for the engine and starter.

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Last edited by Hatterasguy; 09-10-2004 at 09:23 AM.
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  #17  
Old 09-10-2004, 09:03 AM
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VW TDI's start well when cold...

Jim
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  #18  
Old 09-10-2004, 09:09 AM
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Summer grade #2 Diesel will begin to gel at around 15-20F - But I don't think I've ever experienced temps quite this low in August and you are not going to be able to buy summer grade fuels in the middle of winter.

Winter grade #2 Diesel will begin to gel at around 0F - If I'm expecting temps to dip below 5F or so I'll add a bit of anti-gel or a splash of Kerosene to the tank. In places where very low temps are more common #1 Diesel will not get until the temps get very, very low. I'm not sure of the exact number but I would guess -20F to -30F?

I've also started my OM602 engine with no block heater assist at temps down to about 5F. I suspect it would start at lower temps than this but thankfully I don't live in a environment that gets below 5-10F.
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2004, 09:26 AM
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I've had to start the diesel in the -30s F without any hint of fuel gelling. I guess they sell a better grade of winter diesel here.
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  #20  
Old 09-10-2004, 09:32 AM
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I have an '03 VW Jetta TDI that went through last winter with no problem. (wisconsin - travelling all over for kids hockey games) You can not even buy or order it with a block heater as an option. It does have some kind of inline fuel heater around the filter area. What they can't do these days
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  #21  
Old 09-10-2004, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselgeek
VW TDI's start well when cold...

Jim
dieselgeek.com
I was just going to mention that. My TDI would routinely sit out in a remote airport parking lot for several days in Illinois winters and not once did I ever have a problem starting the car.
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  #22  
Old 09-10-2004, 09:54 AM
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I too worried about cold-start issues when I bought my duramax. Last year when I was home to Iowa, though, I started it on a 0 degree F morning with only maybe 1-2 seconds extra cranking from normal. I thought it was plugged in, but after I unplugged it I found out Dad had cut the juice to the outside plug-ins to work on one and never turned it back on. I think modern diesels with all the extra intake air heating, longer glow plug cycles, fuel heaters, etc. are no longer much of a problem in cold weather-just have a good battery.
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  #23  
Old 09-10-2004, 10:28 AM
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I'm wondering if this new MB diesel is the beginning of the return of good Mercedes automobiles or will is be yet another new model that hankers to be in the dealer's service bay every few weeks. The 123 is so simple that serious problems are cropping up now, 20 yrs down the road, how long will a CDI run without having to go to the doctor.
I just hope that when this new CDI is 10 years old, about when I can afford it, that it will be the new icon of diesel performance and reliability that the 123, 124 and 126's are today.
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  #24  
Old 09-10-2004, 12:45 PM
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Well how old are you? Were you grown up when the first W123s were released? How do you know they weren't problematic at first, and then the problems got all fixed under warranty. Take my BMW for instance. It had four different problems within the first 2,000 miles. Serious issues too, which cost over $5,000 in warranty repairs. But then since then, it has been completely problem free - now at 35K.

I had a long chat during lunch one day with the original owner of my 300SD (he owned it for 19 years). He told me the car's diesel injection system had lots and lots of issues when new and that several injectors were replaced within the first few thousand miles. His instrument cluster nearly came lose completely and had to be replaced three days after he purchased the car! He said he had to return to the dealership almost weekly for the first three months. He continued to experience problems once in a while for the first three years and then after that the car didn't have any other issues. In fact, his plan was to trade it in after five years but since it became so reliable and trouble-free, he decided to keep it and ended up owning it for 20 years before I purchased it!! Apparently all the bad parts had been replaced then. Today I can brag about having the most reliable 20 year old car on earth. But a lot happened to allow it to earn that status.
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  #25  
Old 09-10-2004, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braverichard
Diesel fuel starts gelling at 20 F. You don't have to be in North Canada or Alaska to experience such a temperature as that's not extremely low. Do you mean to tell me that the CDI / electronic direct injection diesel engines of today can start at that temperature without the use of a block heater?
My '00 VW diesel started easier at -2 below zero then my Nissan truck after sitting in the driveway overnight. Untill the temp gets down to the mid 20's I never even used the glow plug start. My wife's '02 Jetta has the optional coolant heater, but has never needed it to start. I have used it to prewarm the coolant to have heat imediatly. Modern diesel with the anti gel additives will seldom give you starting problems in any weather found in lower 48 states. I have had less cold weather problems with my diesels then the my gassers, and both were bad fuel problems. Can you say water guy.
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  #26  
Old 09-10-2004, 01:05 PM
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Your cold weather experiences with your diesels are all very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
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  #27  
Old 09-10-2004, 03:30 PM
Diesel Power
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braverichard
Well how old are you? Were you grown up when the first W123s were released? How do you know they weren't problematic at first, and then the problems got all fixed under warranty. Take my BMW for instance. It had four different problems within the first 2,000 miles. Serious issues too, which cost over $5,000 in warranty repairs. But then since then, it has been completely problem free - now at 35K.

I had a long chat during lunch one day with the original owner of my 300SD (he owned it for 19 years). He told me the car's diesel injection system had lots and lots of issues when new and that several injectors were replaced within the first few thousand miles. His instrument cluster nearly came lose completely and had to be replaced three days after he purchased the car! He said he had to return to the dealership almost weekly for the first three months. He continued to experience problems once in a while for the first three years and then after that the car didn't have any other issues. In fact, his plan was to trade it in after five years but since it became so reliable and trouble-free, he decided to keep it and ended up owning it for 20 years before I purchased it!! Apparently all the bad parts had been replaced then. Today I can brag about having the most reliable 20 year old car on earth. But a lot happened to allow it to earn that status.
First and foremost, every single carmaker has vehicles that are simply troublesome. I wouldn't expect MB to be any different.

Second, The overwhelming majority of the diesel owners I've met personally, are of an age that they would have been more than aware of serious issues with MB products of the W123 chassis, and even the W115 chassis cars for that matter. While I was but a kid back in the late 70's and early 80's, when the 123's were all brand new, I can fully recollect the world class reputation that MB enjoyed in those days. These were in the same days that good ole' GM was proving to the world, that it had no buisness even uttering the word cars, let alone be building diesel versions of them. I remember the class action suits, and stories of self destructing GM oldsmobile diesels, and GMs refusal to honor their warranties, or take the abominations back in trade.

The 123 chassis represents one of the last versions of MB cars that did not employ large quantites of electronics, sensors, gadgets, and toys. That is what made them the bulletproof cars that they were. Any problems that you see with these now in 123's, relate to the beginnings of the installations of these systems. Consumer quality surveys taken back in the day, consistently put MB at the top of every quality survey. Look now, at what the mass installation of technodazzle has done to the marques reputation. Sadly, they now ride near or at the bottom, even below such humble namesakes as Kia, and Hyundai.
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  #28  
Old 09-10-2004, 03:59 PM
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Temp tags will be best and bill of sale, if not vehicle tags with bill of sale,( have signed title with you and some proof of insurance).

There must be some harda** cops back east.

I personally would never ticket a MBZ diesel owner, might hold you up to ask questions about your car. Fourm members get a freebee in southern NM, as far as Iam concerned.


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  #29  
Old 09-10-2004, 04:18 PM
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Opps sorry wrong thread. But you still get a free ride..


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  #30  
Old 09-10-2004, 04:47 PM
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"Ahh.....The new CDI? Perhaps Mercedes IS going to try to encourage quality production.

.......WHAT!!!!? Why are the new Mercedes going to have no warranty coverage? I just paid $50$$$ for a new car and YOU WON'T STAND BEHIND IT? #$%^ &*()*&$ #$^&(*!"

Plus the bastardization of the brand is no big plus. Even AMG has been bastardized through Chrysler Corp.

The future holds fortunes that noone can honestly percieve. We'll see, but based on the past and present, we may see all too well what MB will evolve into.

I haven't heard of anything personally of CDI's being TRASH. But, I'll keep my ear pressed to the pipe for anything I can sink my choppers into.


Last edited by DslBnz; 09-10-2004 at 05:13 PM.
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