Filter Foibles
 

The story of my first DIY oil change on my recent 1976 300D purchase:

First, I went to my local NAPA to order the filter. I told them what I had, and the guy went through his books in short order- said "inline 5?" I said "yup". So, after 2 days the filter arrives and I picked it up, then proceeded to local truck stop to get 8 quarts of REAL 10W30 diesel oil.

Now, I get home, jack up the front of the car, and crawl under with my 17mm socket and remove the filter. Oil everywhere, but that's an old story. Immediately I noticed that the filter I got from NAPA was twice as long as the one in my car, "it figures" I say. (I should be posting on the Vintage Forum, I know, I know!) Anyway, NAPA is now closed for the evening, so I simply proceed to drain the crankcase and plan to hit NAPA first thing this morning. They went back to their books and kind of scratch their heads- on a hunch I told them to check listing for 240D instead of 300D. Now it says that for a '76, they're the same, but if they go back to '75, they are different. NOW, I got lucky- the '75 240D filter they had right in the store! Why? Because it's the same filter as for a freakin' Massey Fergusen tractor! I had my old filter with me, dripping black blood into a plastic bag- we held them side by side and compared dameters- pretty close we all agreed, so he refunds me the difference and I head home.

When I opened the box, there are special instructions inside "for use with Mercedes Benz autos". Excellent! Basically all it said was to use the plastic disk, which I had, and not to use the supplied O-Ring- use the MB one instead. Great!

So, underneath I go, with the assembly, including the disk, but for the life of me I couldn't get the housing bolt to engage into the engine block. I'm not a burley mechanic, so someone with more strength might have done it, but I couldn't. So, after almost breaking my arm I took a closer look. I noted that compared to the old filter, the Massey F one seemed to rise out of the housing by about 1/8" more, and also it had a metal rise in the centre about another 1/8" which adds 1/4" to the total height. So I decided to install the thing without the disk, even though the special instructions said to use it. Ha- it bolted right up- a few quick turns of the ratchet and I was in business.

Now, I poured in my oil, fired up the engine, and watched the oil pressure build to max, which seems to be normal on my car until fully warmed up, then it will drop to half at slow idle. I quickly peered underneath looking for leaks. Kept peering- no leaks. Went back to look at pressure guage- still at max. Let engine warm up- pressure dropped to half. Everything seems normal.

So far no disaster, but I have a question for the experts- is there anything about using this tractor filter without the disk that would make you say "don't drive that car! Get the right parts and have it towed to a garage"? Naturally I'm going to keep a close eye for leaks, dropping pressure and oil loss on the dipstick, and my next oil change, before I put "Pearl" away for the winter will be done at MB dealer with the exact right filter, and the disk. But am I in serious jeopardy until then? Is anyone else aware, or experienced with the tractor oil filter?

Dave Milton

White '76 W115 300D- "Pearl"
'98 Chevy Cavalier- wife-mobile and "just in case"

10w-30 oil does not belong in a Mercedes. Get a proper 15w-40 diesel oil, Delo 400, Pennzoil, Rotella ect.

Isn't changing the oil on a diesel fun.:D It stains everything it touches and just makes a mess.

I guess the 9 months I've been using 5w40 Delvac 1 synthetic for diesels in my 240D means I am wrong in using the oil. :eek: Been using it for four years in my VW diesels with excellent results. Love theose 10,000 mile oil changes in the VW's. I will send in an oil sample at 5,000 miles on this last change to see how it's holding up with the soot and acids.

Gettin' Cool Here
 

As things start to chill down here in Atlantic Canada, the 15w-40 starts getting rather thick. My past experience with Diesel VW's was to use 10w-30 in winter and 15w-40 in summer, as long as it was true Diesel oil. I don't plan to run Pearl after first week of December- she won't come out of the barn again until end of April, but cold cranking conditions are already getting cool here. WE are blessed (?) here with the Irving family empire- perhaps you've heard of them? Anyway, they make a fantastic Diesel oil called IDO, and IDO Premium, both available in 10w-30 and 15w-40. Always has been trucker's choice up here, although Pearl is my first Merc, and she's pretty old- I'll just see how she likes having the thinner blood this time of year. All of the big Irving truck stops have what they call the "Diesel Room" where the bi rig drivers can do everything from take a shower to get new tires for their rigs, and there's plenty of big jugs of IDO to be had

Dave :D

There are 10W-30 rated diesel oils, so as long as that is what you have you are good to go. The C* rating is the most important, this tells you it is a diesel rated oil.

No idea if that tractor filter is compatible or not, but you're getting little or no filtering without the filter disk in there. I would get a proper MB filter and try installing it again.

Palangi- is this because the oil is taking the path of least resistance over the top of the filter if the disk isn't there?

Dave

Palangi,

THe disc is the full flow part and the Tractor filter is the bypass part of the filter system. Without the disc in the filter housing you are not filtering most of the oil going into the bearings and other parts of the engine.

So I suggest you put the disc filter back in.

I don't see any problem with 10W30 oil in cold weather but not when its hot. Why not use a 5W40, 15W40, 5W50 or 15W50 all year long.

P E H

Thanks
 

Thanks to all. I have ordered the correct filter from MB dealer based on VIN of the car, so the disk should fit right with the right filter. Meanwhile, Pearl will remain parked. (I've started installation of a CD Shuttle in her anyway). Great discussion on oil too!

Dave

I should have said Mobil 1 but, some people don't want to spend the money. $50 oil changes are not for the faint of wallet. I run Delvac 1 5w-40 in the winter and Mobil 1 15w-50 in the summer. If it gets real cold up their try Mobil 1 0w-40.

coldwar,

Compare the "tractor" filter to the dealer filter. If the tractor filter is the same size as the dealer filter, it should fit. Seems that when I got a filter for my 220D or 240D it said Hudson or Studebaker on the package. Butthat may have been my 190D.

I know how it is changing filters on the older 240D and 300D before they moved the filter to the top. I could never get the filter can out because the frame was in the way. I think it helps to but a jack under the oil pan and lift the engine slightly. You should put a 2X4 between the engine and the jack.

P E H

WIX part# shows

51010 - List$14.19
Req. M/B F-F Disc
Mercedes-Benz Full-Flow Disc "001845725 Must Be Used With 51010. If "O"

51385 - List$23.90
Oil Filter

My guess is you got the Napa Version of the first one.

Yes- the # on the NAPA box is 1010. But like I said before, this filter adds 1/4" of height to the whole assembly, including disk, so I could not push the housing up with enough force against the spring to get the bolt threads to engage. I had also noticed that the metal "rise" in the centre of the 1010 filter's top plate is of the same diameter as the centre "hub" of the disk itself, yet it would not fill in the vertical space normally occupied by the disk. I don't need a new disk- I simply left it out of the assembly so that the filter would bolt up. When I get the right filter from MB, I'll put the disk back in.

When I gave the MB dealer the VIN number of my car, he gave me this part# for the filter he will be ordering for me- 0001800209, list price $8.17 Canadian (which is pretty cheap).

It would appear to me that the function of this disk is to give enough space for the oil to bypass when the filter becomes plugged. With the disk not there, there should be no danger as long as the filter is not plugged, except that the filter is probably not seated tightly against the spring and so some oil could drift around it instead of through it- kind of a "partial bypass" situation. Anyhow, I hope to have it all back to normal when the new filter comes in next week.

Thanks All!

Could you describe the "disk" you are talking about please? Some of the folks here are assuming that you are refering to the two leafed plastic filter that normally goes above the disposable filter in a W115 style oil filter cannister.

I guess the 9 months I've been using 5w40 Delvac 1 synthetic for diesels in my 240D means I am wrong in using the oil. Been using it for four years in my VW diesels with excellent results. Love theose 10,000 mile oil changes in the VW's. I will send in an oil sample at 5,000 miles on this last change to see how it's holding up with the soot and acids.

I switched over to Delvac 1 in a prior diesel I owned and checked into why Mobil has it at 5W-40 vs. the 15W-40. The Mobil 1 website explains that it is interchangable with 15W-40, in other words, don't worry about it. I have been using it in my TDI as well since it was new. I am going to switch my 300D to synthetic before winter. I just found a local parts store that sells Amsoil for about $3 gallon less than where I get my Delvac. Decisions, decisions :rolleyes:

Your question made me all the more curious, so I went out to the car and got the disk. The part # on it is 0001845725. For those of you who speak German, it has "Siebscheibenfilter-Einsatz" embossed on the top. (Does that loosely translate into "Makes the filter harder to install"?) It is 3-1/2" in diameter, and is indeed a "double leafed" affair with a centre hub- all made out of tough nylon plastic. And it does slide over the cannister bolt and sits on top of the filter cartridge. At first glance it looks like it could be a pulley out of a big tape recorder. Upon closer inspection, I noticed that the centre section has 8 spokes radiating out from the centre hole, and between each spoke there are two little oblong holes (oil journals?)- each hole leading to the outer top and bottom "leaves" of the disk. And much to my surprise, those leaves actually consist of an extremely fine plastic filter mesh! So this isn't just a disk to take up space- it's actually a filter- just as you call it! Now I'm listening!

This opens up a whole new line of questions- what is the correct way to clean this thing out? Does it ever get beyond cleaning and have to be replaced? Which actually plugs up first- this disk filter or the disposable cartridge? And finally the real question- for the sake of others because I'm not driving the car until I get this put back in after my proper cartridge finally gets here- what is the real danger of not having it in there? What if someone went to Jiffy Lube and the trained monkey decides not to put the disk in because he had the same problem getting everything to bolt up as I did? What if it gets thrown away without telling the owner? Is it just the W115 and earlier cars like mine that use this thing?

This could end up being a long thread!

Dave :p

Coldwar,

So you finally believe us that the disc is a filter, not a spacer. If its not installed, most of the oil will go to the engine unfiltered.

Yes, that's another danger of going to Jiffy Lube with a MB.

Yes, just W115 and earlier MB Diesels used this type of 2 stage filter. When the filter was moved to the top of the engine, the cartridge was changed to a 2 in one filter that did the same thing as the 2 separate pieces you have.

THe cartridge would plug up first because it traps the smaller carbon particles that go thru the disc filter and there would be no indication of htis. If the disc filter ever plugged up, you would have little or no oil pressure.

P E H

My first piece of advice is never go to Jiffy Lube. Or any generic oil change place. Most cars are easy, but I don't even trust them to do my non-Benz vehicles. 10 years ago a Grease Monkey place "checked" my differential fluid - as soon as I got home, the rear end was howling. The drain and inspection plugs were in place, but there was no fluid inside! Needless to say, I've not been back.

My primary filter is MB 000 184 57 25, so we may be speaking the same language. The bypass filter dumps to the pan, the primary to the block. I use a Baldwin P40 for the bypass filter, and simply wash the primary. Bolt and a couple of washers to seal the ends, slosh around in fuel (wear gloves unless you want hands like mine), let air dry overnight, then look for tears. The ends are different diameters, so install it right or it won't work. I think the big end down, or the words up. Most of the time I take a peek at the mount. Also brazed a nut at the bottom corner of the can. Short bolt and a copper washer means I can drain the can before removing it. Today a TIG welder would work just as well as brazing. Get the nut on before drilling the hole.

That plastic disk is the main oil filter, without it in there you have NO filtration at all as the oil that is supposed to go through the bypass is instead simply going straight back to the pan!

It's a tight fit, reguardless. My brother's 300D is a huge pain, with a Wix filter or with a Hengst. You must fit the housing up onto the holder and then screw the bolt up (or you will bend the canister, we had to get a new one for my brother's, it was bent).

There is some art to this -- I can get it on, my brother (who is much stronger) cannot. As I said, you must fit the canister up and THEN start the bolt, else it goes sideways. The spring is quite strong, as it acts, I believe, as a pressure relief for the bypass filter. There is NO room under there, either!

And yes, the Ford tractors (8N series, I believe) use the same filter. You can get one at any tractor supply place (use Wix, they are the best). You must use the large o-ring and not the flat seal, though, or they leak.

Peter

Well, I don't feel as inadequate then, not being able to get this thing to bolt up whilst laying on my back with only inches to spare! I'll be glad to get this finally put right so I can drive my baby again. One of my original questions was- do I need to get car towed to a place with a hoist or can I drive a short distance? I've concluded I certainly need a hoist and a good mechanic to make sure the filter assembly goes in right, but as for whether I can drive the car there- I did a little experiment today.

You say that the oil goes right back to the pan- that would imply none is getting to the engine. I took a chance and started it up and removed the oil fill cap from the cam cover- plenty of oil spraying out of there at idle, so I concluded there is plenty getting to the engine, therefore there should be no problem driving a couple of miles to get to a garage.

Made me think about what this "bypass" must be all about, as I'd never thought about it before. It would seem that when the disposable filter gets plugged, the oil pressure must force everything downward against the spring at the bottom, which would uncover an opening to the bypass tube. With my main plastic disk filter missing, it would mean the filter is in a permanent bypass state, but as my experiment proved, not all the oil gets bypassed- there must be some getting up to the engine, some going through the disposable cartridge, because it's new and not blocked, and some going through the bypass back to the pan. The fact that my guage was showing full pressure must prove this out too- if it were all bypassed, I wouldn't think it would show any pressure, right?

So, I conclude there will be no risk in driving the car a short distance to get the filters installed correctly- hopefully the mechanic I have in mind has enough "art" and strength to get it right!

Cheers,

Dave

Coldwar,

NO problem with driving the car without either or both filters in the can except possibility of dirt getting into bearings. With new oil in sump, you are probably OK. As long as you have oil pressure you are OK.

How do you know the mechanic you are going to take your MB to knows anymore about installing the filter than you do? You should find a picture on how the filter goes together. Possibly a picture in a parts book.

I like the idea of welding/brazing a drain on the filter can. That way you can change the filter with out getting an oil bath. I think you can get the filter can out if you loosen the engine mounts and jack up the engine. I might do that the the next time I change the filter on my 220D or 240D. I hate to change the oil filters on both of them.

P E H

PEH, Coldwar,

A couple of hints that helped me with the oil filter on the '68 220D I drove for 20 years. When putting it all together, I sat the can down over the bolt on a flat level place on the floor or a work bench. Then proceeded to load all of the parts back into the can. Once all is inside, you can place the assembly up against the filter case head tightly and start the bolt into the hole. Once the bolt is started you can relax your grip on the can and use the bolt to pull it all together. Just before the big 'O' ring seats, push the can back up and make sure it is accurately seated and complete the bolt tightening.

On the oil draining part of the job, I always loosened up the center bolt a few turns, but not so much that it came out of the head. Then you can hold the can up and the oil will drain out around the bolt but below where you are holding and into a drain pan or whatever you have provided. 20 years of doing it provided a lot of practice!!

Lycombing-8,

How did you get the filter can out of the car?

P E H

My can goes in the same way as Lycoming-8's. Comes out the same way too (no power steering the difference?). Also made a square "o-ring" from hard rubber that fits tight into the mount - no fiddling with o-rings and no leaks.

coldwar: buy some car ramps. They'll pay on this job. If you can get the can out then you can get it back in. Be patient and learn a few German cuss words. That slot in the bolt is the trick as to where the oil goes. I'll post a pic in a few weeks when I get home (providing I remember).

The oil filter in the 300D W115 is a huge pain, it's almost impossible (note a said "almost") to R&R the canister! Very little clearance, you get covered in dirty oil, etc.

The spring in the bottom stays on the bolt, and I never remove it, just drain all the oil out of the canister. Proper assembly is illustrated on the canister when you wipe the dirt off, either new or replacement. Doesn't explain how the spring got put on top in my brother's.....

If you don't have the plastic filter screen in there, you are circulating completely unfiltered oil with the normal flow through the bypass filter (controlled by a bleed orifice in the housing) isn't going through the filter, either. You can take it to a tech, but I'd not drive any further!

Unless the tech is familiar with these cars, he's gonna have fits to. As I said, you have to get the canister seated and then screw the bolt up, you CANNOT start the bolt first becuase the filter housing tips down and you cannot reach behind it to hold it up, you can only get to the bottom of it. Once you get the bolt up to the canister you can use a wrench. Helps to not have tendonitis (me) or pinched nerves in your neck (my brother)!

Practice makes perfect.

Peter

Ha! The German cuss words are printed right on the disk filter- "siebscheibenfilter-einsatz!!!!"

The garage I'm taking it to lets me stay in the servcice bay and chat. I know how the whole thing goes together- which side's up, etc. so I can show them that. I just don't have the moxy to force the cannister up in far enough to get the bolt started, especially due to the "tractor" cartridge being slightly taller and with a raised center section adding 1/4" overall compared with the old one that was in there. I'm hoping the one I ordered from MB dealer (which is 2 hours away from where I live- they're mailing it to me) is more correct.

As for getting cannister in and out, that's not an issue at all with my car, aside from the free hot oil skin treatment. Once bolt is loosened the cannister simply drops down, and has to be tilted slightly to clear the cross member, which is when most of the oil spills down your arm. Nothing is in the way to the point I would have to do something drastic like loosen engine mounts. Putting it back is equally easy- except for having to push against the spring when the disk is in there.

Oh yeah- I am very sad today- "Pearl" has been violated! Somebody stole the 3 point star off my front grill last night! Nervy enough to go all the way to the back of my driveway! It's amazing how naked the car looks without it.

Dave

PEH,

Think the trick here may be in what 'dabenz' said. Namely that he has no power steering and I do not either. So, I just dropped the can almost straight down once I had let the oil drain out of the loosened bolt hole. Sounds like I really need to be thankful that power steering was not necessary or installed on the old 220D.

psfred,

Does this fit with your experience? Would the lack of power steering make this a lot easier job in your situation?

psfred,

My '68 220D didn't have power steering when I got it but it does now. I had the engine out and a parts car with power steering also with engine out. It was just a bolt in job to install power steering, so I did. It made tha car much more pleasurably to drive with the power steering.

I can't remember if it was possible to remove the filter can before I installed the power steering. I Know it is not a nice job to change the filter afterward. and to change hot is not possible.

I really like the filter on the top on the newer MB engines. Might not like it as much if I have to remove it to R&R the IP, though.

P E H

Mine is a 300D with power steering, yet there is nothing drastically in the way of dropping the filter, or getting it back up into it's rightful position, other than like I said the main suspension cross member makes it so you have to tilt the cannister toward the oil pan. Perhaps it's due to the 5 cyl. being longer, thus putting the filter in a more favourable position.

Dave

Yeah, the PS pump is definitely in the way. A bit pain to keep the PS hoses tight on the pump, too.

Peter