I dont know if you guys have followed the other MB forums but I have been posting my problems with my new CDI.
I have had problems with power loss and turbo surging during acceleration. The dealer has changed a lot of parts but the problems still exist. I am wondering if anyone has had the same issues with their cdi. Mine has been in the shop for over 30 days and will be returning there the first of the week.

Hi,

The new CDI engines from MB are really troublesome and they are nothing compared to their previous greats like the OM 616/617 engines.

Have you checked out www.lemonmb.com

Viesel,

Sorry to hear of your problems. I drove one of those and was very impressed, but thought I would be better off waiting a few years. MB has lost my respect lately. Too many problems, too little committment to their customers. It is almost like they think it is your fault for buying one of their products that you are having a bad experience.

Anyway, please keep us posted on your experience. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

This is so true. I once worked for a German company for a period of 10 years. They had the exact same attitude. Nothing could be possibly wrong with their product. It is the user who is operating it incorrectly, that had to be the problem. With complicated products it is very possible to develop this mentality, especially if you have no respect for your customers.

Years back when Lexus and Infiniti was launched in the US, Car and Driver interviewed the then BMW boss and asked him about the impending threat from the Japanese. His reply reflects the typical, current German attitude, according to him, the Japanese didn't have the necessary genes to design and built an original car, in his words, the Germans shall prevail due to the fact that people bought the German cars for prestige.

Now I don't know about others, I only bought the OM 616 engined MB for reliability, prestige be damned.

Most of the subscribers to the Diesel Discussion Forum are of the same opinion as you, Gurkha, but it is not that common to find a typical MB customer who really cares about much more than the fact it is obvious they can afford an expensive car. In the past MB's were expensive because they were reliable and robust, and these characteristics gave them a value that measured up with their purchase prices. Today, they are relatively less expensive than they were in the 1980's, and they are significantly less robust and reliable. The conclusion one draws is MB is engaging in the reverse of the Toyota-Lexus, Nissan-Infinity or Honda-Acura strategy. There are now dozens of MB models to choose from, and they are being sold as slightly costlier versions of each market segment they play in, which seems to be all markets now. Unlike the Japanese companies, MB did not rebadge or create a new brand to accomplish this. Instead they watered down the MB name with lots of models and filled them with all kinds of under developed gizmos. From what I have seen, it appears making a solid cheap car, then growing into the luxury market is more successful or easier than being only in the luxury car market, defining the market and then expanding to reach the rest of the spectrum of the automobile market.

The MB heritage is at risk, since the customer base MB is pandering to is perfectly willing and capable of making direct comparisons to Japanese makes. It seems MB, and BMW with its styling of late at least, is now being paced by the Japanese companies. I doubt the Japanese will make room in their traditional markets for MB willingly, and low cost packed with features is a Japanese invention. MB should go back to making superior machines and live in the markets where it can lead. It would be great if they could do this with the entire range of cars and SUV's they have today, but I doubt it. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Model prostitution was tried by Porsche and it failed. The 924 was a vehicle designed by Porsche to use mostly existing Volkswagen and Audi parts. The 914 model was sold as a "Porsche" because the VW market wouldn't stand the cost. Only the few 914/6 were actually built in Stutgart using the boxster opposed 6 cylinder engine that made the good reputation that Porsche enjoyed. The 944 engine, being half of the 928 engine, sucked big time. 928s flopped too as did the 968.

We are seeing every MB model with it's own dedicated parts, therefore, no interchangability. Can you think of a good reason, other than corporate greed, for making a different cruise control amp for every model? How about knock sensors or the oxygen sensor systems? Saving YOU money on parts and repairs isn't in their agenda.

__________________
You can get farther with a smile and a gun than you can with just a smile.

1984 300D
1985 300CD
1980 300SD
1993 SL500

Now I'm not supporting MB or their attitude, but I have some stuff to contribute here...

MB is the world's oldest automaker. Over 90% of the automotive innovations/inventions came from their engineers. They've always been leaders, even in something as simple as styling (check out Lexus cars and old Infinits and Acuras to see what I mean). I can only name a few things that were major innovations that didn't come from Daimler. They are even about the introduce external airbags on the next S-Class in Europe to allow it to meet the new pedestran-vehicle impact requirements. This is something I'm sure every automaker will copy because if they don't then brands like Porsche would have to drastically change their styling. It is therefore understandable to see how the company can be so arrogant. The German companies are generally that way because they have a grand reputation for superior engineering and craftsmanship. I'm not saying this is correct, but that's what's happening though.

MBs were never engineered to save you and I money. Just think about it. While the case you described above is very relevant and true, looking at old MBs you can see that cost has never been a factor in their engineering. From the need for that huge oil filter to that for the huge battery, original MBs were engineered with a "hang the expense" attitude. However no one complained in the old days because the quality of those parts really showed that they were worth the money. That doesn't really seem to be the case these days unfortunately.

__________________
1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

and shut up.
As per Daimler, you are a peasant consumer, just ask Chrysler HQ in Michigan.
The engineers there are worker peasants doing as ordered, thought is ok, and questions are ignored or terminated.
All operations are being moved to where all the superior brains are.

Old Mercs were cheap to maintain? Please show me one, all complicated cutting edge cars cost a few bucks to keep going. German cars need to be looked after. My SDL was cutting edge in 1987. It had the new complicated 6cy diesel with electronics and an alloy head. Not to mention ABS and an air bag!! The W126 broke new ground just like the new W220's.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I'd been saving my money for a CDI from the first moment I'd heard that MB was going to be selling them in the US.

My wife & I were able to take one on a test drive, and it seemed like an OK car, but at north of $56,000, it seems overpriced...

After talking it over with my wife, and after additional research and much reading on various forums, we decided not to buy it.

Why doesn't MB (or anyone else) simply build something like a modern-day 240D - ie, simple, reliable and all-manual?

- Patrick

Patrick,

A bottom of the line C270 CDI has still got electric windows and seats, but it has a manual airconditioning system, which I would welcome. I guess the reason they don't make something simpler is because we consumers buy the more expensive ones with the added junk, and the name of the game is profit. So, we consumers are to blame for the fact that a modern 240D could be made, but isn't. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Exactly! Let me just list a few of the automotive "firsts" that were launched on the W126 chassis: ABS, Airbags and I believe crumple zones and headlamp wiping systems.

In fact, when you consider that every car in the world today has ABS and airbags, it seems to me that the relative level of technowizardry in the 126 chassis back then was greater than that of the 220 chassis today. I mean, what can you get on a 220 chassis now and can't get in a Lexus that is at least $30,000 cheaper? That wasn't the case with the 126 chassis. Stuff like ABS and airbags stayed exclusive to it for a while. And don't tell me those systems never gave issues when they were first launched! Those cars just seem cheap to maintain because it is now at least 14 years down the line since those features were launched.

__________________
1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

Actually crumple zones where introduced much earlier, on the w108
I think(could be wrong, but w123 had them for sure)

Some of the later w123's had ABS and driver side airbags.
It could have been for testing but they did have them.

Not sure about the headlight wipers, I have never seen them
on a w123.

http://www.surfblau.de/crash.html

http://forums.mbnz.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1183966&posts=23&hl=ABS

Louis.

Speaking of reliability and longevity, the Japanese manufacturers like Honda and Toyota have proved time and again that their vehicles are built to last. Even small factories like Subaru and Mazda have a real solid reputation but they are not expecting the customer to pay for prestige. As for innovations, MB doesn't't hold the cue here, need I remind that modern day fuel injection, ABS were US invention and so is automatic tranny as well as power windows. The Japanese too have their share in current technical innovations and the list is quite big.

Consider the fact that people in Australian outbacks depend their life on Toyota Land Cruiser and they are willing to pay for its higher entry cost even though outbacks are not meant for rich people. The reason, Land Cruiser outlasts anything else. Couple of years back, BBC Top Gear picked up two used cars, both with approximately same mileage and years. One a MB S class and the other a Lexus LS-400, surprisingly, the Lexus had fewer rattles, felt way solider and in the end, was declared to be a superior value, much like the old W123 OM 616/617 cars from MB.