Parking the diesel...fuel's just too much now! - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#46 10-04-2004, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indiana

The 20% increase (if that is accurate) would be because there are more people working and the economy is bouncing back...

The economy is bouncing back, as in, it's better than it was four years ago? I have a lot of friends who have been laid off between 9-11 and just a few weeks ago who would beg to disagree. A couple who would beg to be able to pay their mortgages

Oil will continue to become so expensive due to demand and supply constrictions that people will be forced to either drive less or convert to other fuel sources. It will be a painful transition, but it will have to happen sooner or later. I'm no environmentalist wacko (I have an SUV, although the guilt paroxysms and gas-price sticker shock since I bought it six months ago have been leading me down the diesel/wvo path quite effectively), but I think it will turn out to be a good thing, if we can manage to detach ourselves from the middle-eastern teat.

TwitchKitty · #47 10-04-2004, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

And part of it is directly related to the fact we havent built one new refinery to keep up with demand in 25 years. The existing refineries are running at near capacity normally.

That simple fact can be directly blamed on the enviromentalist lobby who have blocked new construction.

The, fact we aren't drilling and pumping more of our own than we are also, same group.

These factors DO effect the market which is why prices are so high, I agree.

A large part of why we have NAFTA today is that Shell Oil was refining Mexican crude in Deer Park, Texas and exporting it back to Mexico. It was cheaper for their lobbyists to buy some legislation instead of paying the taxes both ways. They had the excess refining capacity to export gasoline and diesel.

Don't buy into corporate propaganda so easily. You are correct to be angered but the target of your anger may be a little off.

As more American jobs move overseas the overseas demand for oil will increase and that means more competition for resources and higher prices. The large multinationals laugh all of the way to the bank and you pay higher prices to subsidize thier overseas expansion and tax avoidance here in the US.

Now they have moved so much of industry overseas that they have exported customers for some of the products of refineries and are having to export the industrial products that are left over from producing the gasoline and diesel.

Granted there are many environmental wackos but they are largely funded by the multinationals and are just pawns in a very material and very profitable sytem that you and I pay for.

And don't even bother to post about how globalization is good for us, just more multinational corporate propaganda. They love your money, but hate you. We have heard it all before.

dlssmith · #48 10-04-2004, 11:12 AM

Crude oil, like other commodities, is traded on the major markets. The price is influenced by a number of things, including supply and demand. Some people think that the supply is a little low right now and a major interruption could, and I repeat, could, be caused because of war in the middle east. This inability to predict what will happen in the future is why they invented these markets in the first place to stabilize supply and demand. Heating oil aka diesel, is traded separately, and because there have been supposed shortages in the last few winters, or at least high market prices, thought to be caused by shortages, the price is higher now in anticipation of demand. Crazy you'd think!, but no, somewhere in there logic is assumed.

In Europe and in the US the taxes on fuel are based on what the buying public will tolerate and are collected and used for whatever the government wants to spend them on at that moment. There is no such thing as fuel tax collected and then "earmarked" for a particular purpose. Governments are not accountable in that way to anyone, much less to the taxpayers!

By the way, has anyone noticed how many more cars there are on the roads these days in this country? I have driven in the US and in Europe in the last twenty years, a lot, and I can tell you that even though there are more new roads here, there are also a lot more cars to fill them up. In Europe there are just a lot more cars and congestion than ever before. Despite the fuel costs.

Just wait, all you french fry oil burners out there, soon enough that stuff will be traded just like heating oil (it already is when it is new). Burn it now! If I had the capital, I'd start a company to collect this stuff from restauants, refine it, and sell it to drivers. Hmm. If I thought of it someone else must have first!

boneheaddoctor · #49 10-04-2004, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

A large part of why we have NAFTA today is that Shell Oil was refining Mexican crude in Deer Park, Texas and exporting it back to Mexico. It was cheaper for their lobbyists to buy some legislation instead of paying the taxes both ways. They had the excess refining capacity to export gasoline and diesel.

Don't buy into corporate propaganda so easily. You are correct to be angered but the target of your anger may be a little off.

As more American jobs move overseas the overseas demand for oil will increase and that means more competition for resources and higher prices. The large multinationals laugh all of the way to the bank and you pay higher prices to subsidize thier overseas expansion and tax avoidance here in the US.

Now they have moved so much of industry overseas that they have exported customers for some of the products of refineries and are having to export the industrial products that are left over from producing the gasoline and diesel.

Granted there are many environmental wackos but they are largely funded by the multinationals and are just pawns in a very material and very profitable sytem that you and I pay for.

And don't even bother to post about how globalization is good for us, just more multinational corporate propaganda. They love your money, but hate you. We have heard it all before.

You won't hear me preaching in favor of outsourceing or globalization.
The enviro-wackos aren't corporate funded I would beg to differ.

Business would love to have a few more refineries.

I personally think EVERYONE who is an enviromentalist be legally required to pratice what they preach. I.E. be forced to drive tiney little cars, and prohibit them from owning SUV or anything that gets less than 40 MPG.

Bet that group would all but dry up.

indiana · #50 10-04-2004, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webwench

The economy is bouncing back, as in, it's better than it was four years ago? I have a lot of friends who have been laid off between 9-11 and just a few weeks ago who would beg to disagree. A couple who would beg to be able to pay their mortgages

Oil will continue to become so expensive due to demand and supply constrictions that people will be forced to either drive less or convert to other fuel sources. It will be a painful transition, but it will have to happen sooner or later. I'm no environmentalist wacko (I have an SUV, although the guilt paroxysms and gas-price sticker shock since I bought it six months ago have been leading me down the diesel/wvo path quite effectively), but I think it will turn out to be a good thing, if we can manage to detach ourselves from the middle-eastern teat.

I guess the solution is higher taxes and government paid healthcare and tougher government regulations that will make our economy bounce back? Out of those 3 socialist montras I cannot name one that will improve anyones economy, but the governments. There is usually a long lag in economy bounces up or down. Fear plays another role though 911 had an instant impact because people were staying home not going out and spending anything and the market went down that took a big toll on the economy, but it has mostly all bounced back now. Sure some people here and there have lost jobs, but it is normal and no job is secure. It is part of living in a free economy. It is not because we don't pay enough taxes or because there are not enough government regulations or handouts. It is just the opposite. Taxes are too high, regulations and government handouts are too many. The guy who works hard gets punished while the guy who doesn't gets rewarded...

boneheaddoctor · #51 10-04-2004, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indiana

I guess the solution is higher taxes and government paid healthcare and tougher government regulations that will make our economy bounce back? Out of those 3 socialist montras I cannot name one that will improve anyones economy, but the governments. There is usually a long lag in economy bounces up or down. Fear plays another role though 911 had an instant impact because people were staying home not going out and spending anything and the market went down that took a big toll on the economy, but it has mostly all bounced back now. Sure some people here and there have lost jobs, but it is normal and no job is secure. It is part of living in a free economy. It is not because we don't pay enough taxes or because there are not enough government regulations or handouts. It is just the opposite. Taxes are too high, regulations and government handouts are too many. The guy who works hard gets punished while the guy who doesn't gets rewarded...

And in every socialist government the only well off people were those of the inner circle who were exempt from what was forced upon the rest of the population. Everyone thinks its the next guy who should have to pay for the programs they themselves want. Never themselves.

Plantman · #52 10-04-2004, 12:37 PM

Guys, be careful. If this turns "political" they just might close down the Diesel forum also. Shhhhhh!!!!!!! :p

Hatterasguy · #53 10-04-2004, 12:40 PM

Yeah, this thread is getting off topic.

indiana · #54 10-04-2004, 12:50 PM

Blame Richard Eldridge's post he got me started...... I will try to stay on topic now

Old300D · #55 10-04-2004, 01:13 PM

And boneheaddoctor, I am one of those "wackos" and I do practice what I preach. I have a vegetable powered 240D turbo now, it's a very nice car. Let diesel fuel reflect the true costs, like the Iraq war. It won't be $2.00 a gallon for long!

rmmagow · #56 10-04-2004, 01:19 PM

The price changes are the same now as they've always been. We'll see 2.50/gal maybe more while they are producing heating oil. Around mid November the diesel prices'll start coming down becase the stock piles of heating oil will be ready and shipping costs nation-wide will be lowered for the Xmas shopping season. Diesel will probably drop say to 1.89/gal and that will become the new "floor" and we'll all be happy because it's not 2.50 any more. 10 years from now, 2.50 will seem very cheap. Cross your fingers for a nice mild winter and prices will come down faster and lower. Maybe anybody-but-bush can get us out of the mid-east quagmire, but the mid-east is always going to be a problem for us. I like hydrogen as a fuel but that's not going to be real 'till after I'm dead. Coal and oil-bearing shale will be next in line I think. Prices for crude are getting near the break point for oil-bearing shale. I think I read someplace the break-even was about 65/75 a barrel.

Plantman · #57 10-04-2004, 01:33 PM

Just thought i'd share this bit of info:

The United States Military is the biggest user of gasoline and diesel fuel in the US.

I would have never thought that until I read that an M Abrams tank gets 1/2 mile to the gallon. WOW.

Those armored Humvees probably get around 3-4 mpg.

Pretty amazing.

boneheaddoctor · #58 10-04-2004, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old300D

And boneheaddoctor, I am one of those "wackos" and I do practice what I preach. I have a vegetable powered 240D turbo now, it's a very nice car. Let diesel fuel reflect the true costs, like the Iraq war. It won't be $2.00 a gallon for long!

Good for you, you are one of the few who do. I can respect you more because you do. Most of them whine about people using gasolene powered lawnmowers to mow their 1/2 acre lawns all the while driving one or two city blocks to buy a gallon of milk in a Ford Excursion or expedition.

I for one am still researching Biodiesel and how to throw something together from easy to find local items. The WVO is the easy part. Have close friends that own 6 local restaurants.

What I don't have is a local mentor to show me how do do it as I do it.

Angel · #59 10-04-2004, 01:42 PM

I've found that in my area (central to eastern Cincinnati), the price of diesel varies greatly with the station you buy it at. The big new BP station near the beltway charges $.05 above the 93oct. price, while the smaller-older station on my way to school ("columbia parkway"- 4-lane surface street, no trucks allowed) charges about as much as the 91oct as the diesel. These stations are about 15 minutes away from each other (and both are on my way to work AND school)

Maybe Cincinnati isnt like th PNW (big surprise there) but I'm surprised that the big BP continues to sell diesel..and I still see "I'm a badass 'cause I got diesel" pickemups getting fuel there. (due respect to those that dont buy a diesel truck for showoff purposes)

-John

indiana · #60 10-04-2004, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plantman

Just thought i'd share this bit of info:

The United States Military is the biggest user of gasoline and diesel fuel in the US.

I would have never thought that until I read that an M Abrams tank gets 1/2 mile to the gallon. WOW.

Those armored Humvees probably get around 3-4 mpg.

Pretty amazing.

That's true also a small naval tug holds about 150,000 gallons or more of diesel. Its GPM not MPG for ships. A lot of the fuel goes to the Navy and Airforce. Aircraft is a big user of fuel. It's worth every gallon to keep us free..... Indy