As many of you know, I recently purchased my '84 300D Turbo from Herb Phillips through eBay. He was and continues to be very responsive to my questions regarding the vehicle. Additionally, he offered his resources for used parts for the MBs.

I do agree that when someone is in the business of selling vehicles they will do as most people in sales do, maximize their profits. How good they are at doing that would depend on a number of things. Herb seems to take the approach that maintaining an honest relationship with his buyers is equally important as his profit. Proof of this is that I have some minor concerns and he is willing to work with me to resolve them.

Would I have liked to have saved a couple thousand? Of course. As long as the seller stands behind his sales it is worth additional.

While dealing with him, I suggested he participate in this forum. He was already familiar with it and indicated he might start following it again. I hope he does.

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Steve
'87 300TD - 132K - Soon 4-Sale
'84 300D Turbo - 122K - Driving
'77 VW Type II - 77K - Restored
'08 250EX Ninja
English Bulldog (Brier) - My best friend. Passed away 12/02/04 while in my arms.

So I'm rude and stupid by describing the work he does?
Did I lie when I said he buys cars from private owners and sells them higher? Was I stupid when I said it's his job to 'fancy up' the description? Was I rude in saying I would not buy a car from a pro? Sorry I didn't defend a used car salesman.

Why would the guy be going out on a limb? Saying what you think a car is worth is "going out on a limb"?
I didn't sling mud in my posts- but sure you did; calling Brian and I stupid and rude.

As for the rude and stupid, well, William has said it better than I could, and I will leave it alone.

However, Twitch, you have stated yourself that "making a car show well is an art, show some appreciation."

This is where we differ. The art of making a car show well is not something I respect. My own SDL shows magnificently. The photos of it were taken in front of a mansion down in South Florida with palm trees framing its recent paint job. Two of the wheels were touched up so that they could look decent for the photos. This car shows very well.

The same car, as I explained above, has about 15 mechanical issues that need attention. Nothing major, but, the total cost of parts will be about $2.5K or so. If you brought this vehicle into a dealer, you would be looking at $7K of repairs. Should I respect this dealer and show appreciation for the excellent job of making the car show well?

I think not.

Brian,
IMO you are absolutely correct in the above portion of your last post. I need to stay out of this one . . . my point was Mr. Phillips, for the most part, acknowledged flaws along with professionally detailing the particular vehicle I purchased. Additionally, I am certain he will be willing to address some post-sale concerns I have. That being said, I hope Mr. Phillips will be, as you certainly are, a valued contributor to this forum. The biggest strength of this forum seems to be the generous sharing from its dedicated members of MB facts/ideas/opinions. Without that, people like me would most likely be unable to own and appreciate any of these fine vehicles. I feel very fortunate to have found this forum because of people like you. I hope this minor issue gets put behind quickly so the positive nature you so freely exhibit comes shining through.

What a wonderful day here in the Twin State Valley for a folliage drive. Know I need to decide which MB to share it with . . .

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Steve
'87 300TD - 132K - Soon 4-Sale
'84 300D Turbo - 122K - Driving
'77 VW Type II - 77K - Restored
'08 250EX Ninja
English Bulldog (Brier) - My best friend. Passed away 12/02/04 while in my arms.

Steve,

I'm sure that there are reputable used car dealers out there who would make a car show well, and take care to fix all outstanding mechanical issues. Mr. Phillips may be one of those dealers.

However, I believe that it is the general consensus, and my personal opinion, that the dealers are there to "make the car show well under the lights". The mechanical issues must be addressed minimally. They are too costly for most dealers to fix and still make a good profit. So, you get a vehicle that is 20 years old, with "issues", that shows very well.

Unless these 20 year old vehicles were maintained by the dealer, or maintained with the attitude of the members of this forum, they are going to have a slew of mechanical issues. This is usually why they get sold in the first place.

I take it, by your comments, that the 300D also has some issues that Mr. Phillips was not aware of, or chose to ignore?

Brian,

Your last sentence is accurate and I don't know which the case is. The listing stated no tears/rips in the leather seats though upon arrival inspection I found a seam on the top of the rear seat back torn. I reviewed the full display of photos and can see a shadow where the tear is though the angle of the shots do not allow a clear view. That being said, I believe Mr. Phillips will make the situation right once I complete by evaluation of the vehicle. There are some other issues I am still trying to sort through before addressing the seat. I don't want to appear unreasonable since I have learned from this forum that twenty years does not provide a new car. I must say, if my 300TD had the rust free body of this one I would have two extemely fine examples.

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Steve
'87 300TD - 132K - Soon 4-Sale
'84 300D Turbo - 122K - Driving
'77 VW Type II - 77K - Restored
'08 250EX Ninja
English Bulldog (Brier) - My best friend. Passed away 12/02/04 while in my arms.

Note that I never mentioned any names, I never said that your statements or your assumptions were wrong. Sometimes it is better to listen to what someone has to say and take away what you can even if you do not like the person or what they do. What did you gain by voicing your opinions? Nothing, but you ended a dialog that others could gain from even if you couldn't.

Also a little reality check here, do you really think those cars at car shows are as perfect as they look? Some are, most are not.

We could go to a new car lot and find problems with many or most new cars. We are talking about cars so old that most people wouldn't even drive them and you expect them to be issue free?

By the way, most professional wrestling is acting.

Brian Carlton wrote "This is where we differ. The art of making a car show well is not something I respect. My own SDL shows magnificently. The photos of it were taken in front of a mansion down in South Florida with palm trees framing its recent paint job. Two of the wheels were touched up so that they could look decent for the photos. This car shows very well."

I bought my car from a similar Floridian EBay dealer. His logo didn't happen to have a Nordic motif to it,did it?
Excellent issue this month in Consumer Reports, all about the tricks of the used car trade.

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1981 240d
Newport,RI

I bought my 86 300sdl from a mercedes benz dealership last year with 128k for $9000. The car came with a 30day warranty from the dealer in writing. Condition wise - excellent. The interior is truly like new. No rips, tears, stains or wear marks on anything. The dealer I bought it from was the dealer that sold the car originally. It also came with a lot of records. The exterior has no faults other than a few chips. In fact I'm always amazed how good it looks. It has not been trouble free but nothing major. Window regulator, shut off valve and some other stuff I can't remember right now. I've spent couple of hundred in parts and have become an expect at door panel removal It also came with michelen snow tires and an off brand set of regular tires. All eight of the tires are like new. Some felt I paid too much but so far I'm very happy with the car. It was obviously well loved and well taken care of by its two previous owner. The second owner was a relative of the first owner and owned the car for less than a year. The biggest project I've done is to replace the original radio with a sony cassette player and trunk mounted 10 cd changer.

Is is worth it to buy a car in excellent condition? It was to me. I don't have a lot of free time to spend on repairs.

Dave

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1986 300SDL

Dave,

That is a vehicle that was clearly maintained by the dealer and was traded for a new vehicle. It was in such good condition that the M/B dealer decided to sell it himself, rather than wholesale it. This would be extremely rare for an 18 year old vehicle.

Now, you would think that an M/B dealer could get the very highest price for a new vehicle, correct? But, clearly, 9K is nowhere near the highest price that people pay for these vehicles, as evidenced above.

That vehicle, at 9K, is a terrific value, IMHO. I will have put in above that amount when I get mine close to that condition.

Here he is, in all his glory:

http://www.rollingwheelsinc.com/default.asp

I ended a dialog? Because I might have hurt the feelings of a used car dealer? Because I voiced my opinion?

Well, in the future, I'll be sure to keep my big yapper shut so that I do not offend any more used car dealers. Certainly don't want to do that, that is for sure! They might not speak to me anymore!

Reality check: We are talking about used cars sold by used car dealers. What does this have to do with a car show?

What I expect is the used car dealer to thoroughly go through the vehicle and tell me that the vehicle has:

1) a bad driver's seat spring
2) vehicle pulls to the right when braking
3) front brake pads are shot
4) radio does not work
5) rear defroster does not work
6) headlight washer and wiper do not work
7) cruise control does not work
8) window tint is peeling in several places
9) vehicle shakes terribly at 70 mph


I do not expect, as the dealer that sold me this SDL, to be told that "everything works on it; it appears to be recently repainted and was well taken care of".

If all of the aforementioned issues were disclosed, then I could have made a better judgment of its value. I believe that I overpaid for this vehicle by about $500. because the used car dealer did not disclose the true condition of the vehicle, if he in fact knew it.

Personally, I think everybody's giving these guys too much credit. They pay a kid "detailer" to shine everything up and onto the lot it goes. Without fail, every used car I've bought didn't even have close to the right air pressure in the tires, but they sure were shiny on the outside.

Descriptions I've read of previous owners:

local doctor, now retired has seven cars
various military officers who maintained the car as if it was some airplane or artillery piece
various family members who passed it around until now
car dealership owners who "had their service dep't" maintain it
blah blah

I enjoy cars, I can't stand the people who sell them. Or the dealers & service "writers" whose primary function is $ extraction from your wallet.

Rant, rant,

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Norm in NJ
Next oil change at 230,000miles