The Isuzu Engine is one of the best.

My friend owns one I think 2004.

He told me his experience with that truck was unbelievable.

He was on the highway going 60 mph, suddenly he floors the truck and it burns rubber even at 60 mph!

Thats power!

You can say what you want about your American crap.

My friend owns an STS and there is no way that is better than a Mercedes.

If not even BMW is better....

My friend has been to the shop for fuel injectors and power loss for his STS with only 26K miles. I laugh and laugh! :eek: Plus it does 13 mpg! thats sick and stupid.

I ask him why get that car? All those horses and no place to gallop!

...if you want your diesel pickup to drive like a sports car, sure... :rolleyes:

Maybe I'm wrong about the 6.2 L and maybe I'm not!


American cars are my least favorite, but american Trucks are not so bad.

I am still wating for Mercedes to come out with a pick-up version for the U.S. Market.

American cars may be your least favorite, but you don't have to run those of us who drive and like them into the ground.
~D.J.~

I agree. It is unbelievable.

Wait a minute lets not let this get personal here. I did not call you a name or be little you; or imply anything about you or GM/American car drivers or buyers.

I am glad you made it out ok! :)
Btw I know someone who owes his life to a 03 500E he flipped it over on the highway and walked away without a scratch. Their are people that have been saved by other makes to.


boneheaddoctor I know all about Saturns steel frame, every car has one. Their pretty cool I was looking at one from an Audi A6 at a car show all aluminum and very stiff and light.

Sorry about that, I get touchy when people bash Saturns. This is an ongoing issue with our car club and such, plus I have done a crapload of stuff to mine, and consider it quite an investment.
My point being, just because it's plastic and shattered, doesn't mean it's unsafe. This is a common misconception - actually their safety cage is torsionally one of the strongest on the road, as it has to be. This is all part of why Saturn is GM's most expensive marque to produce... even over SAAB/Cadillac.
~D.J.~

The Gm 350 diesel was in fact a converted Olds 350 gasoline engine. It was done for exactly the reason someone else stated, this made it very easy to install in existing designs. The late diesel 350 had most of the problems sorted out but GM had already blown their chance with all the early problems. Yes, I too hold GM responsible for releasing an unproven and flawed diesel design that left a bad taste in the US consumers mouth that exists even today. The diesel 350 blocks were very popular with Olds drag racers as the block was simply a much reinforced gas block and that made it pretty durable for drag racing and all the gas parts bolted on. For the last time, the GM 6.2 and 6.5liter engines ARE NOT CONVERTED GAS ENGINES!! They were designed under contract by Detroit Diesel from the ground up. Not one part will interchange with any other GM engine. If you think they are you simply cannot read, don't bother doing any research or are simply a bloody moron. Sure the GM engines have had their share of problems. I still give GM some credit in that they are a true "light duty" diesel. The 6.2/6.5 was never designed to be a medium duty diesel such as the Cummins and Powerstroke. Both of them weigh about 1200lbs each. The GM weighs 700+lbs, about the same as a gas big block. They (6.2) were designed from the outset as a "fuel economy" engine for light duty pickup trucks and in that service they easily return 20+mpg. Remember that this was in 1982 when gasser pickups would be lucky to get 12mpg. GM continued to develop the design with the increase in displacement to 6.5liters and turbocharging. They were never designed for this and had many teething problems due to it. Don't overheat them. Watch the harmonic dampers. Use CH4 rated oil and change it often, etc. Somehow the US military seems to make do with GM 6.5’s in Humvee’s…. If they were really that bad I would have expected a change to a different engine by now. Just because an engine is a “diesel” don’t assume that it will last “forever” A diesel engine can be built to a price point just like any other engine so it will only last a finite period of time. I think the GM 6.2/6.5 is such an engine. Most will go 200K some hit 250K or even 300K but fairly few. I think they can be made to last longer if attention is focused on the most troublesome/failure prone parts and some modifications are made, which is what I have done with mine. 207+K and it runs like a Swiss watch. The advantage to owning the diesel is fuel economy, towing power, etc. not necessarily longevity. Which brings me to my next point:

Regarding the build quality of US vehicles, you get what you pay for. My 84 300D cost $32+K in 1984. Yes, 1984. What is that in todays money? $80K? $90K? How can you compare the quality of a vehicle like this to an average US car or pickup? To build a quality-comparable pickup truck today it would like cost well over $100K. Who would buy it? Whats the average cost of a US made sedan? $18K-$25K? How is this comparable to ANY MB? For what MB’s cost I would certainly hope for exceptional quality. This unfortunately seems lacking in the new models. The other issue is care. Most “high end” luxury cars like MB’s get far better care than the average US car and certainly better care than the average US work truck. I am willing to bet that ANY US make vehicle that was washed, waxed, serviced, etc. to the level of our MB’s would easily last 100% longer than the average. Lets face it, most people treat cars are disposable and change them every 4 years. I have seen examples of almost every brand of vehicle with 200+K and these almost always were the vehicles that received regular care if not meticulous care. That said, I am enjoying my “crappy” GM diesel. It starts in 0* weather, gets 18.9mpg average (including lots of towing), makes money for me every day, has been cheap to own, cost 2/3rds of a comparable Ford or Dodge at time of purchase and has been easily one of the best vehicles I have owned. We make our choices and drive what is best for us. If you don’t like what I drive, that’s fine. I probably wouldn’t be caught dead in your turdmobile either. :D RT

Just wondering, what tranny do you have, and what gearing's in the differential? I'm guessing 3.54's and an OD tranny...? FWIW, it's possible, with a 5 speed and 3.54 rears, to get 20mpg out of a Ford IDI (although the Powerstroke does somewhat worse)...same with the Cummins. I get between 13 and 15, but I've got 4.10's and a 4 speed manual...actually, I don't know how the turbo addition's changed my fuel mieage numbers yet...

And I'll bet that if you gave a Cummins a serious try, you wouldn't go back ;)

Warden,
3.42's, NV4500 5speed in mine. I have pulled 9500lbs with mine. Would have been better with 4.10's but it did surprisingly well. If I factor out the towing I average 19.8mpg. 21pmg on the highway at 72mph, CC on. Not to bad for a 6100lb truck. The mods I have done help quite a bit. Similar trucks with 4.10's average 15-16mpg. Your turbo should help you at least 1-2mpg. I tried the Cummins. Almost bought a 96 w/5speed. It was $6K more than my truck and had more miles. I still think the GM's are the bargain of the century IF you know about the specific problems and how to deal with them. If I towed more than 7K on a regular basis I would either have to mod mine some more or go for a Cummins. I do hate Dodge styling too though. Have fun with the turbo. I had a buddy with a Banks kit on a 7.3IDI and it ripped. RT

All cars don't have a space frame, most are monoque design with the exterior skins being a stressed member. Saturns don't rely on the exterior skin for strength. But I do think I know what you meant to say.

http://www.freeautoadvice.com/diesel/cav.html

http://www.shopdiesel.com/index.cfm/action/coolantfaq.htm

http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/b_smoke7.htm

http://www.thedieselstop.com/contents/getitems.php3?Cavitation%20Analysis

http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/1999faq/Maintenance-Cooling.htm

http://www.rv.net/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/13324934.cfm

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/printthread.php?threadid=32231 this was a great one but the links are now down.

http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/powers~1.htm

Those are not all inclusive. All powerstrokes have issues with cavitation, which is directly related to improper cooling system maintenance. Something that was not in the Ford manuals untill very recently. ANd most people do not change coolant every 30,000 miles or do routing checks for coolant additive.

In France diesels represent 62% of the car population.

I don't hate Chevy's
Well maybe a little

My son asked me about buying a pre 73 Ford or Chevy. He said someone told him that Chevy's were easier to get parts for.

My advise was to get the car he liked best and could get the best deal on. My bias is for Ford but he would be happy with either one. I think the Chrysler slant 6 was the best engine ever put in a popular price car of that era.

Of course that does not include Corvairs, Vegas or other mega crap that has carried the Chevy name. Fact is that GM has built some crappy diesels, even if a few have defied the odds and stayed together more than 100,000 miles. I would be willing to bet that for every 6.2 Chevy diesel running today there are ten Ford 6.9's, and the 6.9 was a crappy engine.