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  #1  
Old 10-17-2004, 01:32 PM
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My 87 300TD still waiting for the right answer...

thanks Peter (psfred) for your help so far...

in regards to my '87 300d turbo (603)
we decided to clean up the diesel engine while rebuilding some things (do to numerous oil/fuel leaks). Since we reinstalled by steps through the service manual, the engine starts, knocks very loud (similar to the sound file I've heard uploaded by DieselAddict) and smoke blue/grey (smells more like fuel).

Note: knocking is present from idle to around 1500rpm, then smooths nicely but smoke still there (cold or hot engine).

this is what has been done so far:
Cylinder Head - rebuilt at machine shop and was tested
Injector Pump - rebuilt at Bosch authorized fuel injection shop
Injectors - also rebuilt at shop and was there to see testing
Fuel Lines - all replaced
Vacuum Lines - all replaced
Drive belt tensioner - plus idler pulley replaced
Fuel/oil Filters - all replaced
Fluids - 15W-40 engine oil used
Compression test - in between 370 and 400
Timing - Marks line up (injection timing set)

I rewrote to follow up my previous post and clarify symptoms and what has been done.
My engine is right now dismantled again to verfiy timing marks and waiting for new clues.
Any input is appreciated, thanks Joe

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  #2  
Old 10-17-2004, 05:17 PM
Mack
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Sorry to hear this. I will be interested to see what you find, my 603 is running rough at idle after cold starts much like yours, but it seems to smooth out at a lower rpm then yours, or once it has warmed up. I suspected bad glow plugs, but it is the same with fresh one's, it seems to have some light nailing at idle especially when cold, so I now I suspect the injectors. I am a little concerned based on what I have read on this board concerning injector rebuilds, it seems that often people are getting injectors that have been "professionally cleaned, tested and/or rebuilt, popoff and spray pattern checked, etc." Yet several owners have gone back over these injectors, and reported that they where not as advertised, mismatched popoff settings, and poor spray patterns....... I really wonder about this, as well about the quality of injector rebuild parts offered these days?:

Best of luck, I hope you fix it, and determine just what it was causing the problem.
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Old 10-17-2004, 08:24 PM
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1) Delivery valve seals?

2) IP timing? (There are no marks to line up - I'm confused as to what you did there.)

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Old 10-17-2004, 08:40 PM
mb123mercedes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack
Sorry to hear this. I will be interested to see what you find, my 603 is running rough at idle after cold starts much like yours, but it seems to smooth out at a lower rpm then yours, or once it has warmed up. I suspected bad glow plugs, but it is the same with fresh one's, it seems to have some light nailing at idle especially when cold, so I now I suspect the injectors. I am a little concerned based on what I have read on this board concerning injector rebuilds, it seems that often people are getting injectors that have been "professionally cleaned, tested and/or rebuilt, popoff and spray pattern checked, etc." Yet several owners have gone back over these injectors, and reported that they where not as advertised, mismatched popoff settings, and poor spray patterns....... I really wonder about this, as well about the quality of injector rebuild parts offered these days?:

Best of luck, I hope you fix it, and determine just what it was causing the problem.
That's why you are better off cleaning up your own old
injectors and then have them tested and calibrated.

Louis.
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  #5  
Old 10-17-2004, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr
1) Delivery valve seals?

2) IP timing? (There are no marks to line up - I'm confused as to what you did there.)

Well I said timing marks because:
first put crank at 0 TDC and cam mark lined up
then crank turned to 15 degrees ATDC, and inserted IP with IP Locking tool in place.
So after the manual this should be the right setup.

thanks and let me know if you feel the same way.
joe
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Old 10-17-2004, 11:58 PM
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That's the right way, Joe, but did you check it again, AFTER inserting the pump? (Trust me - you need to. BT, DT!) If it's still at 15, great.

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  #7  
Old 10-18-2004, 12:16 AM
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Sounds like late injection timing to me, as this is exactly what the 220 would do.

Re-check the IP timing as installed, you can jump a spline pretty easily going in, and that can make it late enough to run badly.

Peter
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  #8  
Old 10-18-2004, 11:03 AM
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Thumbs up Injectors

I had a bad #1 injector, loud nailing. I replaced it with a "new" rebuilt one..... nailing was of course...........WORSE!!!
They are ALL now at a local rebuild shop. NO more rebuilt injectors for me!!! This guy gives you a print out of pop pressures and GUARANTEES spray pattern. Nothing like doing it local.
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2004, 12:42 PM
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Definitely double and triple check the IP timing. Has been a thorn in my side more than once and has caused me much lost sleep as to what could be wrong w/ the car! And make sure you listen to gsxr! He knows his s***!

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  #10  
Old 10-18-2004, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr
That's the right way, Joe, but did you check it again, AFTER inserting the pump? (Trust me - you need to. BT, DT!) If it's still at 15, great.

Yes turned it many times to double check - crank at 15 atdc the lock fits in IP

Although couple things im not exactly sure of:

IP: if the IP was put in 1 spline off, could it not be adjusted back from the adjuster (should the adjuster be at center position when installing pump?)
When looking from the engine the IP does not sit exactly vertical, it is leaning some degrees to the right, is this normal?

Timing Device: does the timing device gear have any specific position? I marked it at TDC before removing, however it looks like it can be put back anyway. Could it make a differance?
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  #11  
Old 10-18-2004, 01:13 PM
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OK, if it's at 15, then you're all set. I assume you felt the tool engage and couldn't turn it with the tab engaged. The timer is spring loaded and does not require a set point. The timer itself can fail, but that's awfully rare, and would require a trip to the dealer for diagnosis (dynamic RIV test requires special meters).

I'm back to wondering about delivery valve seals, and/or a questionable injector. I'm assuming the prechambers are all good.


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