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  #1  
Old 10-22-2004, 11:56 AM
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cetane ratings VS. nailing symptom (all diesel)

I ran diesel purge through the 300 SDL yesterday. and answered one of my questions but have now raised many more.

on the thread about the 603 engine knocking many things were suspect in each cars case. mine was a knock at hot idle dissapearing above 1000-1500 rpm.

after warming the engine i stuck my new fuel line hoses into the silver can, started it up and had to walk away for about 1.5 min. I came back to no knock and after the can was 7/8 gone the thing sounded great. I was smiling ear to ear as my other assumptions included fallen lifters and major ip timing/wear.

unfortunatly they dont sell Purge at the Pumps so i hooked the fuel lines back up and much to my dismay.

30 seconds later TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK,


my heart sunk.

TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK,

what now?

TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK, TACK

my question is: with the increased cetane (burnability/power) in the Diesel purge what injection defeciencies are overcome?

injector settings (spray/opening pressures)

IP settings (fuel delivery quanity/pressure)

Pre-chamber environment (blocked holes/glow plug/ evaporator ball)

cylinder environment (compression/ cracked head)

Or if it is not specificly the cetane what about Diesel Purge would temporarly eliminate the symptom of nailing?

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Last edited by OhioSDL; 10-22-2004 at 11:57 AM. Reason: sp
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2004, 01:03 PM
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A common problem is the poor quality of diesel fuel in this country, most is about 42 cetane and these cars were designed for 50 plus cetane fuel. When ever I have to use the standard rot gut fuel while traveling I will add about 10 or 12 oz of Power Service Cetane booster & lubercating additive.

I have access local to 49 cetane B2 fuel and the old 240D does not smoke and runs as smooth as silk on the B2. If I put some local BP Diesel (it's marked Supreme, but it's not delivered by BP trucks) my 240D smokes and rattles like crazy. It takes 15 oz of PS cetane boost and about 1/2 gal of B100 to smooth out.

Went on 400 mile road trip yesterday and when I got back and filled up I averaged 25 mpg cruising 70 to 75 mph on the intersstate for 90% of the trip. On local state roads with 55 mph to 65 mph speed limits I average 31 mpg.
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:23 PM
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try 2 or 3 litres of fresh vegetable to full tank of fuel.best diesel fuel conditioner i ever tried.cheaper too
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Old 10-22-2004, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael cole
try 2 or 3 litres of fresh vegetable to full tank of fuel.best diesel fuel conditioner i ever tried.cheaper too
When you say 2 or 3 litres of fresh vegetable . . . can it be carrots or winter squash?

On the serious side, I have been reading about what you suggest and wonder if it works. No harm to the IP, injectors, etc.? Do you run cetane boost in addition to the veg oil?
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  #5  
Old 10-22-2004, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael cole
try 2 or 3 litres of fresh vegetable to full tank of fuel.best diesel fuel conditioner i ever tried.cheaper too
Yes a little plain veggie oil quite things down like you will not believe and clean the fuel system and combustion chambers like nothing else. However a 10% mix or so of Bio Fuel will not raise the cetane level of the fuel, that is only done by chemical additives,such as power service.

What's really funny is that a 2% bio mix will clean a fuel system just as well as a 100% bio fuel will. One of the big avantages I would think for these 116 & 117 engines would be the low soot content of a B50 to B100 fuel so oil change period could go longer and every would thing stay cleaner longer with less ware.
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  #6  
Old 10-22-2004, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael cole
try 2 or 3 litres of fresh vegetable to full tank of fuel.best diesel fuel conditioner i ever tried.cheaper too
What did you pour in. I've been tempted when at Costco to buy a big jug of veggie oil or canola or something into the tank to help clean things out...
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Old 10-22-2004, 07:45 PM
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Start with the simple stuff first, have your injectors ever been tested? Mine had a slight nailing that new injectors seemed to fix. The injector shop near me charges $10 each to test them.

What about your timing chain stretch?
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Old 10-22-2004, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy
Start with the simple stuff first, have your injectors ever been tested? Mine had a slight nailing that new injectors seemed to fix. The injector shop near me charges $10 each to test them.

What about your timing chain stretch?
I don't want to pull the injectors yet because it is a rather large production to do that. The easy stuff for me is to try and clean the fuel system and injectors with some goodness. Running some DP is a great idea but also a production to get to the fuel lines under the manifold.
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Old 10-22-2004, 08:05 PM
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I guess on the 606 it is you have to remove all of those platic covers. I can have my injectors out in less then 10 min now so for me it is simple.
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  #10  
Old 10-22-2004, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michakaveli
I don't want to pull the injectors yet because it is a rather large production to do that. The easy stuff for me is to try and clean the fuel system and injectors with some goodness. Running some DP is a great idea but also a production to get to the fuel lines under the manifold.
Just dump a gallon of veggie oil in at fill up, and add some cetane booster such as PS and you might be supprised how much better your car runs.
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  #11  
Old 10-23-2004, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnavy
Just dump a gallon of veggie oil in at fill up, and add some cetane booster such as PS and you might be supprised how much better your car runs.
I'm assuming that any Olive oil or Canola oil will do?
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  #12  
Old 10-23-2004, 10:28 AM
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Bio is good

A steady diet of bio mix has also been known to even clean out a carbed up intake. As long as the EGR is still hooked up.

The only negative to bio is cold weather flow and it eats some types of rubber.
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  #13  
Old 10-23-2004, 10:59 AM
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Those two are about the best you can use. Also at a 2% to 5% mix you should never have a cold weather problem with the mix depending what part off NA you are located. I run 2% bio diesel year around, but it has a lower gel point then straight veggie oil. Veggie oil starts thicking at about 74* F and will become solid at 40*F, where 100% Bio-Diesel has a gel point of about 30*F and can be treated to go about 28*F. However a lot of people run B10 in sub 0* area's of the country in the winter.
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  #14  
Old 10-23-2004, 11:11 AM
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I'm gonna go to Costco and grab 1 gallon of each, Canola and Olive. Although I read in a previous thread that Olive has less energy than canola, but I'm experimenting on their lubricity effectiveness.
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  #15  
Old 10-23-2004, 02:57 PM
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Ok. Got back with a 1.25 gallon container of Canola oil and they also had a 35lb. jug of soybean oil. I grabbed one of each. The canola was $5.49 for the 1.25 gallons and the soybean was $14.96 for 35lbs.

I added the canola to my tank and topped it off with diesel. So far the engine definately runs quiter. I still have to replace my fuel filter later today anyway.

I will take pictures of the box from the soybeaen oil. What is the difference between the soybean oil that I purchased and biodiesel? With BioD being not so readily available here, I was thinking of grabbing a few containers of soybean oil when I go to Costco.

Between the canola and soybean oil the soybean oil was much more fluid in the container. Oddly there is not value for the capacity of the soybean oil, just net weight.

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