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  #1  
Old 10-24-2004, 11:37 AM
jcd jcd is offline
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Location: Northern New Jersey
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300D "Performance Plan" works out

It all started with the replacement of a timing chain. Then between me and my Tech, Star Service in Wantage, NJ, we did the following.

1. Replaced the fuel screen in the fuel tank. (me)
2. Replaced the injectors (me)
3. Set the injection pump timing (tech)
4. Valve adjustment (tech)

Man............. the old car starts right up (new starter), idles smoothly and quietly, and runs like a top.

It is so nice when a plan comes together.

JCD

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  #2  
Old 10-24-2004, 11:55 AM
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A good starter makes all the difference in the world on an old diesel sometimes!

My brother's W115 300D was cranking VERY slowly, and wouldn't start in cold weather at all. We dropped in a new starter last weekend, and it's like new now!

I've still not convinced him to run the glow plugs long enough, but hey, it's his car.....

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #3  
Old 10-24-2004, 01:31 PM
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Peter,

Concerning the 603, and only the 603:

Mine needs a good 25 seconds of glow to ensure a perfectly smooth start with no misfiring for the first 30 seconds.

Your opinion on the following, please:

Would a brand new set of glow plugs get this time down to 5 seconds or so (effectively glow light time)?

Discussion is at ambient temperatures of 45 F. to 70 F. It is clearly understood that all bets are off below freezing.

I've already bought the plugs and am considering removing the intake so that I can clean it up a bit. But, I'd rather not risk the removal of the plugs if it won't buy anything.

Marshall had commented that the 603 should do better than what I currently experience if the glow system is functioning "as designed".
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  #4  
Old 10-24-2004, 02:27 PM
dieseldiehard's Avatar
Dieseldiehard
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bay Area No Calif.
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Brian, my "new" '87 300D turbo had bad stuttering and nailing at a cold start last December (its almost a year later now and nothing bad to report in fact I really like this car a lot!) even after letting the GP's warm 30 seconds. It had lots of fuel leaks and needed lifters even with Mobil 1 it was noisy. I decided to send the head (#14) to be checked for leaks and flatness because the head gasket was leaking. At 255K miles, it had received little or no attention by PO.
After installing new lifters (following a valve job and skim cut) and new IP seals it has only a very slight nailing after only 15 secs pre-start warm up period. The noise dimishes rapidly, say within a half minute it is almost quieted down, this after 2 or 3 days of non operation and ambient around 50 - 60 degrees. The first start on a hot day the nailing is zilch. After a short distance it is completely normal. I am using a little RedLine catalyst also in the fuel (1/3 bottle at fill ups) so that may be a factor.
If your GPs are all OK, and your IP seals have been replaced, there might be something related to the lifters that is involved. That would be my hunch.
As for getting it down to a 5 sec warm up - I don't think that is possible cold. MY GP timer is about 10 seconds as I recall (I'll count next time and verify that)
As addendum, MY '85 OM617 (completely rebuilt engine) has no "misfiring" (what I would call nailing) at all even cold (what cold we have here is above freezing so that is not COLD, just not warm!). It is an almost instant start, say 5 seconds on the GP and its off and running smooth. What a gem.
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'95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D wolf in sheeps body, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine at 367,750 and counting!

Last edited by dieseldiehard; 10-24-2004 at 02:35 PM.
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  #5  
Old 10-24-2004, 03:09 PM
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I think that it must be related to glow plugs in some fashion because, if I let it glow for 30 seconds or more, it will start instantly and run perfectly smooth. Lifters could not cause this and I don't think that IP seals would do it either. I'm not positive that all the glow plugs are up to snuff. I would expect that they are all working, but, I am curious as to whether a brand new set, with increased tip temperature, would cut the glow time down.

When I pull the manifold, I'll probably change them just to see what they do.

Yes, the 617 exhibits none of this behavior between 40 and 90 degree ambient. Once it starts, it runs perfectly smooth in five seconds or less.
Very different than the 603, and, the reason why the discussion must be exclusively related to the 603.
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2004, 03:31 PM
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Dieseldiehard
 
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Yes, the 603 is more demanding for some reason (to get a smooth start) oh well we are stuck with that I suppose, no amount of $$ will ever make one act like a 617, which of course we don't want it to be in terms of performance!

I added the comment re: OM617 because the thread started by jcd was on the OM617 running smooth after some attention.

As for the glow plugs, if you taking the crossover off you might as well replace all of the plugs which are not easy to get to. There was some post that someone said they thought Beru plugs looked better than Bosch, any comments on that?
I ususally keep a spare set of plugs on hand, it seems like with German parts prices rising all the time, buying a set now would insure I have them available and save some bucks over what they will cost in a year or two when I'll probably need them. Darned US Dollar is still dropping.
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2004, 03:39 PM
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DDH,

I would like to take the crossover and the mainifold off for cleaning purposes because they look terrible. My only reservation with the glow plugs is the danger of getting them out of the aluminum head. We all know the result if I break one of the damn things off.

I've got no experience with Beru and bought a set of Bosch out of ignorance.
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  #8  
Old 10-24-2004, 05:58 PM
jcd jcd is offline
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Psfred

U R right.... the new starter just about spins the engine out of its' compartment. I sometimes wonder how I got the car started in last year's NJ winter.

How are things in Hoosierland. Man I miss that state.

JCD
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2004, 06:29 PM
WANT '71 280SEL's Avatar
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I can' speak for the 603, but mine's terrible right after starting. Today, I started it warm (car was at 60 mark) and it was nailing, like it usually does. I don't know what to do. I replaced allthe GPs last year, now one is dead already and I think I may have put the wrong ones in. Anyways, I also can speak for hoosierland, it's really nice today. It's been very cold lately, but today was windows down weather. Where were you from? Of course Peter is from the other side of the state, but I did have the fortune to meet him once.
Thanks
David
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2004, 06:31 PM
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jcd, when you did the injectors, did you have them tested first? If I don't find my dream fintail soon (let me know if you see one for sale ANYWHERE, I've found shipping not to be too bad even from CA.), then I'm going to have to probably replace my injectors and timing chain. I'm sure that will help a ton.
Thanks Again
David
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  #11  
Old 10-24-2004, 07:41 PM
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5 sec glow is unrealistic -- mine takes 20 sec or so, and it get longer as it gets colder out. I usually leave them on 10 sec or so after the light goes out if it's well below freezing.

I get a couple misfires and a bit of white smoke when it's colder than freezing, and the engine is sluggish for a mile or so.

Missing, nailing, and smoke are normal for this engine (and it's not really bad as far as deisels go, I've seen some that blow huge clouds of white smoke for a couple minutes....).

New glow plugs will help some, especially with the miss.

My volvo runs the GP for about 30-60 sec after starting, and that helps quite a bit (similar design).

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #12  
Old 10-24-2004, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psfred

Missing, nailing, and smoke are normal for this engine (and it's not really bad as far as deisels go, I've seen some that blow huge clouds of white smoke for a couple minutes....).

New glow plugs will help some, especially with the miss.
Thanks Peter. I guess that I am spoiled with the 617, that's all. I'll probably take the risk and change the glow plugs if I can get to it before the winter sets in. However, I really need to get to the head on the SD before I get frozen out of the garage.
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  #13  
Old 10-25-2004, 07:59 AM
jcd jcd is offline
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Brian................

I did not have the injectors tested prior to installation..... although there are numerous threads on the site that speak to bad or inconsistent rebuilts from Bosch.... I must just be lucky.

Peter's description of a cold start is accurate. It does not bear any resemblance to a gasser (just as a point of comparison)...... plenty of hiccups and smoke for the first 30 seconds or so, and on my 300D, the GP's cycle for about 20 or so seconds before the light goes out I just use the time to fasten the seatbelts and tune in my favorite radio station.

Today was my first commute after all the improvements and the change is dramatic. I rarely put my foot to the floor and my commute is a combination of highway and interstate driving with a few pretty good hills thrown in for good measure. Comparatively, the car is now a "bat out of hell".

JCD
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  #14  
Old 10-25-2004, 08:26 AM
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Brian,

I replaced the GP's on my SDL about a year ago because of the "hard" starting when the temps started to drop a little. I seem to recall that I had them tested and one tested bad, so I ordered all new ones. I was disappointed that I barely noticed a difference. Even with new glow plugs, when the temps drop I get very rough starts and increased smoke for 30 to 45 secs. With temps right now in the high 40's to 50's in the am, I am letting them glow for about 20 secs. When it gets colder, I go two cycles of about 20 secs.

Just for fun, I am going to test them again soon.
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  #15  
Old 10-25-2004, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Hamm
Brian,

I replaced the GP's on my SDL about a year ago because of the "hard" starting when the temps started to drop a little. I seem to recall that I had them tested and one tested bad, so I ordered all new ones. I was disappointed that I barely noticed a difference. Even with new glow plugs, when the temps drop I get very rough starts and increased smoke for 30 to 45 secs. With temps right now in the high 40's to 50's in the am, I am letting them glow for about 20 secs. When it gets colder, I go two cycles of about 20 secs.

Just for fun, I am going to test them again soon.
Interesting Alan. That was what I was looking for. Apparently brand new plugs are little better than properly functioning old ones. The required time is exactly what this 603 seems to need. A 20-30 second cycle and I can get a perfectly smooth start.

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