Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-30-2004, 04:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: California
Posts: 43
"Why can't we have modern diesel cars here?"

I live in California. We have plenty of government here. We even have our own little EPA called the California Air Resources Board who actually know better than the federal government, what is good for America. They have made it illegal for me to have a new MB diesel car. I can buy a S600 that actually makes twice as much pollution as a S320 CDI, but it is the pollution argument that is used to stop new diesel cars from being sold here. It is more likely that entrenched economic interests are in control.

Europeans are buying new diesel autos faster than gasoline powered autos. If it were just the Frech, I would accept the simple 'cheaper fuel' explanation. But just about everyone is buying diesel cars, even the richest of the rich. There is more to this than meets the eye. If the diesel revolution has not started in the US yet, it may be time to start it.

I hope you enjoy what I write and I hope that you will engage in criticism and discussion that will help guide my research. Here is the first installation:

http://home.comcast.net/~mr.diesel.3/Whats_The_Deal.html
__________________
JMF
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-30-2004, 05:50 PM
BenzBoy8's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 226
Don't listen to anyone in the U.S. who tells you gasoline is better. Desiel is cheaper, this is why they try to sell gasoline more and make stupid laws to stop production of deisel cars. This way the consumer has no option but to choose gasoline veichels.

I was in Europe this summer and noticed that yes, Deisel is everywhere!
I also noticed that people who have gasoline engines dont throw it away and get a deisel. What they have done is converted there cars from gasoline to just propane gas. The kinds we use for BBQ grills!

I found that is the cheapest way to go and its great!

I rode in a propane gas powered car and It ran just fine. MP(?) was great. LOL

He filled up a 20 gallon tank to full, and it lasted about 5 days. It is so much cheaper.

If you noticed Mercedes just released a Deisel and so will BMW in 2006. This means something and not nothing. Diesel is coming back very quick.

For the people who live in California they will just have to wait for some change, for the rest of us we can go buy a deisel car from Europe and bring it over if you want one so bad. I really wish BMW would hurry!

All we need is for carmakers to just start making deisel cars and suvs.
This way the government will have no choice! Ha!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-30-2004, 06:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Wakefield, RI
Posts: 2,145
There is a simple answer to this: The people (generalization) of Kalifornia are not very smart. They elect idiots to lead them. These idiots appoint the equally ignorant members of CARB (thats right, they are appointed not elected-and they know whats best for you) CARB then makes policy (law) which you must obey. Incidentally, I don't think that CARB is all bad, they have done much to improve Kalifornia air quality. They do however admit to having an agenda, and that agenda doesn't include diesel vehicles. How open minded of them. RT
__________________
When all else fails, vote from the rooftops!
84' Mercedes Benz 300D Anthracite/black, 171K
03' Volkswagen Jetta TDI blue/black, 93K
93' Chevrolet C2500HD ExCab 6.5TD, Two-tone blue, 252K
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-30-2004, 06:05 PM
Ara T.'s Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 2,075
I live in CA as well, and it's BS that we can't get new VW TDI's or MB CDI's that get high mpg here, yet people can drive their Hummer H2's and get 9 mpg. Seems like it's the big rigs that are the bigger polluters, not the passenger cars... i dont see big clouds of black smoke coming out from even our 20 year old Benzes, of which i see a lot of actually.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-30-2004, 06:25 PM
mikemover's Avatar
All-seeing, all-knowing.
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 5,514
Ignorance is quite annoying, isn't it?.....

They'll have to come around eventually. With steadily escalating gas prices, and the amazing advances in recent years that have made diesel engines even cleaner, quieter, and often equal to and/or superior to gas engines in performance, it is just going to be undeniable, even for morons like the CARB members. Of course they've always been more durable and reliable than gas engines.

How can they just ignore the fact that nearly 50% of the cars and trucks in the rest of the "civilized world" are deisel-engined vehicles? Idiots.
Public demand will force them to change their backwards thinking eventually.

Mike
__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-30-2004, 10:34 PM
Tirebiter's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Southern California & Hawaii
Posts: 690
Applicable quote

"Anything worth having is worth cheating for."
W.C Fields

"You can't handle the truth."
a Jack Nicholson movie line.

So, cower down and accept the fact that those in power in the Republic of Kalifornia know everything that is good for you.

The Golden Rule applies here.

Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
__________________
You can get farther with a smile and a gun than you can with just a smile.

1984 300D
1985 300CD
1980 300SD
1993 SL500
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-30-2004, 10:40 PM
Rick Miley's Avatar
Spark Free
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
Posts: 3,086
Just hang on for another year or two. The problem right now is our fuel. The sulphur content is too high and will foul the latest emissions control equipment. New regulations to lower the sulphur content in our fuel are phasing in starting in 05 or 06. Then we'll get the latest emissions equiment that will pass CA regs.
__________________
Rick Miley
2014 Tesla Model S
2018 Tesla Model 3
2017 Nissan LEAF
Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
Chain Elongation References
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-30-2004, 10:41 PM
boneheaddoctor's Avatar
Senior Benz fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hells half acre (Great Falls, Virginia)
Posts: 16,007
The answer is simple. Blame the tree huggers and the nutcases from Berkley that your fellow Kalifornians voted into office over the last 40 years. What you have now is the results of letting liberals be in charge for way too long.

Don't get me wrong, I little enviromentalism is a good thing, But like most things too much of it makes it a bad thing.
__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Last edited by boneheaddoctor; 10-30-2004 at 10:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-30-2004, 10:46 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,108
i'm not real sure, but i think you can buy a diesel car in another state and still register it here cant you? I've seen a couple almost new CDIs for sale here, I just dont think you can buy it new here.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-30-2004, 11:24 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bothell, WA
Posts: 237
High sulphur content in fuel is certainly a problem for the very latest common rail diesel systems, but frankly the car buying public shares much of the blame.

Gasoline is so apparently inexpensive that we act as if it were limitless, it never occurs to people that there is any reason not to burn it like it was going out of fashion. If burning less fuel were important to car buyers they would purchase more fuel efficient vehicles. The only way to make burning less fuel important to the majority of people is to make fuel more expensive, it is as simple as that. Most people are fundamentally selfish, and until something hurts them personally they won't give a crap about it.

We get to the UK once or twice per year, and each time we go it irks me that we are not able to buy some of the really neat looking vehicles on sale there. Cars with a small road footprint that offer amazing interior space with versatile seating, and efficient, powerful, diesel engines that get great mileage.

Kevin
__________________
'85 300SD
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-30-2004, 11:30 PM
boneheaddoctor's Avatar
Senior Benz fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hells half acre (Great Falls, Virginia)
Posts: 16,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCampbell
High sulphur content in fuel is certainly a problem for the very latest common rail diesel systems, but frankly the car buying public shares much of the blame.

Gasoline is so apparently inexpensive that we act as if it were limitless, it never occurs to people that there is any reason not to burn it like it was going out of fashion. If burning less fuel were important to car buyers they would purchase more fuel efficient vehicles. The only way to make burning less fuel important to the majority of people is to make fuel more expensive, it is as simple as that. Most people are fundamentally selfish, and until something hurts them personally they won't give a crap about it.

We get to the UK once or twice per year, and each time we go it irks me that we are not able to buy some of the really neat looking vehicles on sale there. Cars with a small road footprint that offer amazing interior space with versatile seating, and efficient, powerful, diesel engines that get great mileage.

Kevin
I think his point is Kalifornia...................we got them elsewhere but the treehugging minority is holding everyone hostage and refusing to allow it to be sold there.
__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-30-2004, 11:59 PM
The Warden's Avatar
Certified diesel nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pacifica (SF Bay Area), CA
Posts: 2,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwthomas1
There is a simple answer to this: The people (generalization) of Kalifornia are not very smart. They (CARB) do however admit to having an agenda, and that agenda doesn't include diesel vehicles. How open minded of them. RT
I agree with you, except for those two statements. Replace "not very smart" with "idealistic to a fault", and you're right on the $$. The ultimate goal is utopia, from the best I can tell.

Re: the second part, CARB's agenda specifically does include diesels...and getting them off the road as soon as they possibly can. I think the CARB's ultimate goal is the complete shut-down of industrialization and going back to horse-and-buggy and candlelight. I do agree with you that they've done a lot of good (cleaned up L.A. quite nicely), but as with all things, there's such a thing as "too much", and we're wayyyyy past that point...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-31-2004, 01:30 AM
compress ignite's Avatar
Drone aspiring to Serfdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 32(degrees) North by 81(degrees) West
Posts: 5,554
Conspiracy Theory

I've voiced these maxims before.

1. No U.S. design team can seem to come up with an efficient, powerful
automotive diesel.(It's like "Military Intelligence" , No Call for it)
2. Even if some MAVERICKS attempted a project like AN DIESEL/ELECTRIC
Hybrid the Oil Companies and "Detroit" would shut them down.
3. The average I.Q. of the AVERAGE U.S. voter must be in the 60-65 range
, How else to explain an electorate so fixated on being ****** (taken
advantage of) by scum bags elected to office who serve only their
Corporate Masters ?
4. Yea, Yea, Yea; Haliburton is fighting a war in the middle east,and any
ONE who speaks against it is a traitor.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-31-2004, 01:15 AM
whunter's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 17,353
Because

California is the LEFT coast.
Balance or moderation are BAD words to those appointed to tell you how to live.
The CARB's agenda specifically addresses diesels; getting them all into the scrap yard as soon as possible.
The CARB's ultimate goal is bicycle, walking and telecommute.

"Diesels are dirty", don't you irresponsible polluters understand, we know best, and you will OBEY!!!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-31-2004, 02:17 AM
Mack
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
My understanding from articles that I have read in various newpapers over the years, (Not that makes the content factual or accurate in anyway) was that USofA and California regulatory agencies take a different approach then their European counterparts.The Europeans overlook some of the pollution output of diesels in exchange for their efficency, where as our regulatory agencies (EPA, and CARB) tend to be more restrictive concerning the range and quanity of pollutants emitted from cars in general and especially diesels.

It seems that each subsequent study of diesel particulates, finds that they are worse then previously thought, and that certain size particulates thought to be relatively "inert" are pretty harmfull in how and where they lcan odge in the lungs.

I am just sharing the "Big picture" that I have gotten from the mass media, wether it is correct, factual, etc. I have no idea, but it seems to be pretty consistantly repeated.

As for the issues mentioned by many poster in this thread concerning CARB and the EPA, you may be correct, all I know is that when I use to visit/drive in LAX region in the early 80's, I physically would get sick, and you could rarely see the mountains around L.A. even when you could, you could not take a picture of them, as a camera could not pick the image up, through the smog filter. It am told it was common place for CHP officers to get a "Black Lung" type disease from breathing in all the pollutants present on Southern California freeways. Having lived in L.A. in the late 90's I cannot believe just how much cleaner the air appeared at that time. This improvement came with more people crowded into roughly the same area, far more cars on the road, being driven more miles then before. Something has made a dramatic improvement in the quality of peoples lives in this region of America.

Not trying to start a pissing match here, just some food for thought.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page