Are POLYURETHANE bushings available for our cars? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

bodyart27 · #1 11-05-2004, 01:05 PM

I have energy suspension bushings on my nissan and they look like they are going to last forever:

http://www.se-r.net/suspension/energy_susp.html

Looking at energysuspension.com, there is not an application for our cars.... thoughts?

If I do the front end of my 126 - I want something that will last...

boneheaddoctor · #2 11-05-2004, 01:42 PM

I have them on my Honda.................makes a big difference in handling....but they don't last forever. In fact they are only waranted to last 24 months......word to the wise.

odie · #3 11-05-2004, 01:51 PM

I would guess not

Poly bushings are usually marketed towards the high performance driver. They have less give and your suspension and alignment does not "wander" as much in the twisties.

They are a little harsher due to the less "give" and will squeak in not lubed properly when installing.

I don't think they wear any faster. I had a set in my 914 Porsche for about 8-9 years & 30,000 miles. I sold the used bushings later when I chopped the car and they bushings had no noticable wear.

Not too many people racing the Benz

boneheaddoctor · #4 11-05-2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odie

I would guess not

Poly bushings are usually marketed towards the high performance driver. They have less give and your suspension and alignment does not "wander" as much in the twisties.

They are a little harsher due to the less "give" and will squeak in not lubed properly when installing.

I don't think they wear any faster. I had a set in my 914 Porsche for about 8-9 years & 30,000 miles. I sold the used bushings later when I chopped the car and they bushings had no noticable wear.

Not too many people racing the Benz

Well being a 4 year member on WWW.Honda-tech.com this discussion has come up and been confirmed by many people that use them. How many miles you drive and under wha conditions will effect it I guess like everything. But just ask the waranty and ask yourself why.

Tirebiter · #5 11-05-2004, 02:57 PM

Most racing vehicles and ALL Porsche race cars use solid plastic bushings whether it was nylon, teflon, thermal plastic, or delrin. The harder they are, the longer they last. I have two with over 150,000 miles on the suspension and the delrin shows no wear. Your kidneys get the wear and you might want to wear a mouth piece. A cd player is useless unless you are stopped.

And that's why I opted not to cut a set of delrin for my smudgepot.

Hatterasguy · #6 11-05-2004, 03:04 PM

My oe bushings still look good after 17 years and 240k miles. So I guess they will last just fine.

Wouldn't poly make for a harsher ride?

boneheaddoctor · #7 11-05-2004, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tirebiter

Most racing vehicles and ALL Porsche race cars use solid plastic bushings whether it was nylon, teflon, thermal plastic, or delrin. The harder they are, the longer they last. I have two with over 150,000 miles on the suspension and the delrin shows no wear. Your kidneys get the wear and you might want to wear a mouth piece. A cd player is useless unless you are stopped.

And that's why I opted not to cut a set of delrin for my smudgepot.

That may be the theory, but the fact is there is friction wear at the suspension bolts through the bushing.

And lots of people have had them start to come appart at 3 years and beyond.

SD Blue · #8 11-05-2004, 07:33 PM

How long the rubber lasts probably depends on how many oil leaks you let go to the point of gushers!

Oil leaks probably have much more effect than how you drive. Poly bushings, more than likely, will make a MB ride like a truck since they have fairly firm suspensions anyway.

Cazzzidy · #9 11-05-2004, 08:10 PM

What about aluminum bushings or hyme joints? Metal is forever...

The Warden · #10 11-05-2004, 08:12 PM

FWIW, I asked about poly bushings when I was looking for replacement upper control arm bushings a couple of years ago. I found that none were available.

I'm guessing that that hasn't changed.

Tirebiter · #11 11-06-2004, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

That may be the theory, but the fact is there is friction wear at the suspension bolts through the bushing.

And lots of people have had them start to come appart at 3 years and beyond.

I didn't mean my comment to be taken as theory. It came from first hand use and knowledge from working as an IMSA crew chief and then as chief mechanic on about 50 factory built racing cars. My old shop, PorschaSports, built around 200 Porsches with race car suspension for street use. I am not guessing here.

And I respect your first hand knowledge of early failures using cheaper and softer bushings on Hondas for club racing. Weltmeister is the largest vender of the cheap stuff and now they are now touting their Poly-Graphite bushings. They are harder than their earlier offerings of polycarbonate but still a compromise due to cost and ease of manufacture.

Graphite impregnated delrin is still used on the bucks up race cars. It costs about $60 a pound and is sold in round stock up to 200mm in diameter. I found it best to cut them with .004 interference fit. No noise, no play, and very long lasting. These cars are run at Gran Prix tracks the world over, often 24 hours straight and used year after year with no need of replacement.

I'm in Las Vegas at the SEMA show and I noticed that some of the CART cars are using spherical steel bearings mounted in aluminum. Having no give at all would take it's toll quickly on the suspension components, not to mention the driver, but the bearings should be good for many miles.

As to my statement that the harder they are, the longer they last. I'm sticking by that. Starting with peanut butter and progressing up the Rockwell scale, it's easy to guess that the softer stuff doesn't wear as well as the harder stuff.

Want your Mercedes to ride like a buckboard wagen? Then machine your suspension parts to accept one of the hand cut thermoplastics.

boneheaddoctor · #12 11-07-2004, 12:12 PM

I was reffering only to the Polyuerathane bushings on the market, I have no experience with the others you mention, and will not comment on as a result. I also know people who had these bushings degrade in 3 years requiring replacement and Energy Suspensions tell them that they don't last forever and are not warrantied forever as a result. Keep in mind this can be 75,000 or more miles on the street, far more than any race vehicle sees in the same time.

And yes I agree they do firm up the ride a lot. Something that would seriously degrade the ride quality of a mercedes for a minimal at best improvement in handling.

I myself would not do it if they were availible for my mercedes. Even though I am glad I did it on my honda.

PiterSchloss · #13 11-07-2004, 02:16 PM

In terms of sqeaks:

If you avoid the red bushings (example of one color), and get some black graphite impregnated polyuerathane bushings, they will not squeak at all. My brother has 112K miles on a set in a 1982 Datsan 280ZX.

In terms of benefits to MB suspension:

I suspect that choosing strategic areas of the suspension in which to install said poly bushings could be of benefit without compromising comfort. I for one have wanted to replace the outer front swaybar bushings on my W124 wagon with poly pushings. I just cannot find them.