Like everyplace MB lets the bean counters run the show. They take low bid on subassys which means they are made cheaply, I.E. Phemolic board instead of Fiberglass circuit boards....etc. Shaving pennies here and there make youhave something less than it could be.

But then they are most concerned to keep warranty returns down, after the warranty is up, that money in their pockets....

For some reason, the air suspension on the Lexus LS400 and LS430 aren't known to give any problems in the first few years of ownership. Granted, the M-B Airmatic and ABC suspensions are much more complicated than the Lexus one, but even the BMW one isn't known to be as troublesome as the M-B one. Overall, I think M-B did some evident cost-cutting from 1995 - 2004, which I know they are fixing right now. And regarding that troublesome air suspension, when you think that the W140 never returned a cent in profit, I'm sure that when creating the W220 they cut costs to make sure that it actually made some profit for the company.

The new SLK for instance, seems of even higher quality than the 2000 S-Class. And all that I've read about the new CLS class sounds really good. I haven't come across any criticisms of its perceived quality. Also, with the Chrysler division of DaimlerChrysler finally fixed and very profitable, everyone will be watching to see if the Germans can fix up the heart of DaimlerChrysler: Mercedes-Benz.

You could build a dandy W123 diesel...in Korea...
 

They have the techno-industrial base of the West of 25-30 years ago...they could produce the parts and castings, and skilled labor costs are low enough that the cars could be put together "by hand" instead of by robots. AND Korea wants to establish its products in Western markets, following the model which the Japanese forged 25 years ago by focusing on quality to the point where their reputation for building "junk" was forgotten. The Japanese outsource some stuff to Korean industry today...and from supertankers to AK-47s, the Koreans seem to have caught on to "old school" quality.

Much of the cost of the modern Benz, BMW, etc., is mandated by government ukases on safety, emissions, etc...which MUST be complied with to sell in the US market. This adds to the cost. But much of the gimmickry (sensors for windshield wipers, low tire pressure, etc. etc.) can't really be called value added...just gratuitous expense added...and waiting to go wrong so the dealer can fix the problem for heavy money (my indie mechanic does a land office business in replacing faulty electronic sensors that "adjust" the front seat in such a way that the driver is crushed against the steering wheel. The dealers want $900 to fix a needless electronic something that performs a function that USED to be done with a lever)!

A very sad fact of modern life is that much of our "progress" is in fact, retrograde.

[QUOTE=Hatterasguy] Heck look at the W116 6.9! QUOTE]

Yeah but if I could find a decent one of those I'd be all over it like white on rice. Also a W124 500E, 400E or E420. One of those will be my next car.

It's a changing car world
 

And it's going to get worse before it gets better. OBDII (1997 & up) cars are run by the computer (ECU) and fed info from the system monitors (like oxygen sensors, RPM monitors, and TDC sensors). It's takes a scanner to point you in right direction and then a pinpoint test at the questionable sensor to fix the problem (hopefully). A DSO (digital storage oscilloscope) is almost a must.

For us old farts that have kept current, it's money in the pocket with little physical work involved. It damn near takes someone with a EE degree to pass the new smog tests in the Republic of California these days.

Do ya think the CARB would ***** if they knew I still used tetraethyl lead in my gassers? :eek:

I recently turned in a 2001 saab 95 wagon that I had leased through my company. I had no problems in three years and 35,000 miles other than a rear hatch release failing. Granted that's not a lot of time or miles. I was never happy however with the brakes - pedal feel was to soft.

We just replaced my wife's 2000 toyota sienna minivan with a new honda minivan. We owned it for 4.5 years and 77,000 miles. Other than wear and tear items, we had to replace one window motor and an O2 sensor. Both in the last month we owned the car. I guess it knew it's fate:)


Dave

OBDII started in 95 (96 in some models) and was not the start of ECUs, sensors, etc. That has been around on almost all cars since the mid 80s. The difference was that before OBDII, each manufacturer used there own codes system, interface, software and sensors. OBDII was a standard that required many things to be the same, the datastream, connection and a generic set of codes (P0000-P1000 codes) across makes (for engine codes only). Manufacturers still added proprietary codes (P1001 and over codes are manufacturer specific), systems, etc., but OBDII helped standardize a lot of the work. Over the last few years, manufacturers have found new ways to make their products proprietary. Some use the theft systems as quick money makers. $200.00 to spend 5 mins. reprogramming a theft system because a battery was disconnected, an engine was changed, etc. And they don't release this info to the aftermarket under the guise that it reduces auto theft and releasing the info to reprogram controllers to the aftermarket would let the technology into scrupulous hands. A bunch of bull designed to make the Dealers quick money. Many of the CPUs on today's cars are proprietary, and they are even finding ways to make the ECUs proprietary which are suppose to be standardized. It's actually quite a big mess to work on newer vehicles in a independent shop. And it's only going to get worse. The only benefit is that the techs who can do it, are starting to get paid more for their skills and over time will get paid even better. The customer loses out in a car they can't work on, is very expensive to get fixed, and a hard time finding a qualified person to fix it.

first off, the 6.9 did not have an air suspension. that was the 6.3.

the 6.9 was hydraulic.

and hydraulic load compensation then migrated into some 126's as well as into the 140's.

what i would like to learn is how reliable the e320cdi's have been so far. i have only seen one on the road in houston.

i rented an e270cdi in france two years ago...loved it.

i have been thinking of buying this usa version, but i question the build quality.

any opinions?

One thing I don't like is the lack of an oil dipstick on the CDI. :rolleyes:

What else did they seal?:confused:

If you don't like the 211, don't buy the car. SO a bee, though! The 211's rearend is starting to grow on me! I must be coming down with something.:D

Once they get rid of SBC.....That's a GOOD thing.;)

Um... so how does one check the engine oil then???? Edumacate me.

Daverdla: Glad you had so little trouble with your Saab and Honda, but
 

my theory is that at about the 6 year, 60,000 mile point, vehicles begin to accrue heavy maintenance costs (timing belt, etc) and a number of smaller things that make keeping the car a nuisance for the original owner...so a "durable good" that should have a much longer service life is "kicked out of the family" prematurely. Case in point...the Cadillac "Northstar" engine which uses as a selling point that it won't need a tune-up for 100,000 miles...the problem is, that "tune up" costs $10,000! That's a substantial bite out of any residual value the car has.

Many people trade their vehicles because they want a change...but there should not be problems "built in" that will irritate the owners until they dump the car.

You don't.

I'm assuming your only reference is through the center display. "DISPLAY OIL LEVEL........OIL LEVEL OK!"

Jim B, very good points. My other car is a 944 S2 cabriolet. It's a fantastic car. There aren't any reliability problems but the timing belts cost around 1200 for replacment. Clutch job is around 1500. I knew that going in so it doesn't bother me. It seems that buyers of used luxury cars really need to know that routine maintenance is absolutely required and isn't cheap.
Dave

Definition of "luxury" car...
 

Auto historian Richard Burns Carson described the 1940 Cadillac as "...the world's first disposable luxury car". Prior to that sad point, it had been UNDERSTOOD that what an auto buyer with deep pockets was buying was what Henry Leland referred to as a "permanant car"...and high price was a "value added" function of workmanship, engineering, and materials...the interior might have rosewood inlays and embroidered upholstery, but such frills were understood to just be "icing on the cake"...a very substantial cake, and one where the service life would be expected to be measured in decades. Today's "luxury" car might have leather seats and a substantial sound system to justify a high price tag, but under the icing is very likely to be a very fragile and prosaic vehicle.

Your Porsche cabriolet is a VERY rare model built with the "old school" approach that I'm sure will appreciate in value, even if you just want to keep and appreciate it. Congratulations!

You're kidding right? I hope you really are kidding. What sort of a tune-up costs $10,000. Come on, elaborate.