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  #16  
Old 12-04-2004, 09:17 PM
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Egg-nog's on mine...
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  #17  
Old 12-04-2004, 09:20 PM
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I knew I could get that " truely" to not be true.... LOL
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  #18  
Old 12-05-2004, 12:38 AM
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Topsiders have their use

They work in cramped areas where access to the drain plug may be limited, like on a yacht.

But you don't even have to jack up your 85 model 300D to stick a drain pan under it for your oil change.

I think I'm reading "lazy" here.
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  #19  
Old 12-05-2004, 04:35 PM
rblookc
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LAZY???? I started this thread and now I'm back in cuz someone called me lazy.

Hey Mr. SoCal Hawaii guy,

I have a Jetta TDI with an aftermarket suspension and the damn things about 2 inches off the ground, which is covered with snow and ice in Boston for the next several months. So I want to topside the TDI and the Benz, so i thought I would ask. I'd like to see you crawlin in the tundra for an oil change.

No one calls me lazy!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just joshin ... thanks to all for the posts, although no one commented on that electric pumper I linked.
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  #20  
Old 12-05-2004, 05:03 PM
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I haven't tried the electric version, but a friend of mine just bought a heavy duty alternative to the Topsider for use at his shop. The one he bought is evacuated by hooking it to a compressor, never did understand how that worked, and comes with a range of metal and nylon tubes. He likes it for emptying transmissions before removing the pan as you avoid fluid all over the place.

I personally believe that the TINY amount of oil left in the bottom of the pan when changing using the topsider has absolutely no impact on anything. If this was a brand new engine and I personally wanted to get 300K miles out of it I might care, but it's already had 173K of who knows what, so I'll opt for the easy life and use the topsider.

Kevin
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  #21  
Old 12-05-2004, 05:22 PM
rblookc
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My concern is paying 22 bucks for an electric version that craps out really quickly. I mean, 22 bucks is cheaper that the manual stuff, but I guess I dont want to trust it without at least one endorsement.
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  #22  
Old 12-05-2004, 05:39 PM
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I have used the electric type but wasn't pleased with the quality and performance of the unit. Bought it off JCWittney's web site. Since then I bought a LiquiVac and am very pleased. It is a hand pump unit and is very stout. You can check it out at http://www.airpoweramerica.com. I have used it for both my 190D and 300SDL. Works great and makes oil changes easy. Add that to MBs top mounted filters, and oil changes can be done in your good clothes! Although my wife hates when I do that.
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  #23  
Old 12-05-2004, 05:50 PM
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"Tiny" is a relative term.... and may be based on hope rather than reality...

"I personally believe that the TINY amount of oil left in the bottom of the pan "

I don't know how much is left in the pans on our old cars ...
But I expect it is more than the newer cars which are designed to be changed from the top...
But I will bet you did not do the test I suggested to find out how much is left in there.......
It would not surprise me for the old cars to leave a quart in the pan.... which added to the amount not changed out in the oil cooler makes more dirty oil than I am willing to leave in my engine between changes....
But yall can do whatever you want with your cars...
I just wanted new people to hear the other potential arguments against it.
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  #24  
Old 12-05-2004, 06:05 PM
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An oil extractor that uses vacuum I would believe would work the best. I use the one we have at our shipyard that the mechanics use on engines with less than 10 quarts. Works quickly and is thorough. Anything larger than that they use a Jabsco rubber impeller pump (12 volt DC) and pump it into 5 gallon pails.
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  #25  
Old 12-05-2004, 06:16 PM
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"and is thorough. "
I would expect it to be... as the oil pan and the extractor location would have been planned and designed for that.......
Our old diesels may or may not have advantageous placement of the dip tube when being used as extraction tube....
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  #26  
Old 12-05-2004, 08:06 PM
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.....what I was referring was my experience using it on my two Mercedes and the Saab......as far as I am concerned if I did not have the use of it for free I would use a drain pan........either method achieves the same "thorough" result, whether it is an old diesel , new diesel or anything else you are trying to get the fluid ( ie. brake master cylinder) out of.
Also, after using it , I did pull the plug and there was less than a shot glass of oil to come out of the sump.
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Last edited by Pequod; 12-05-2004 at 08:17 PM.
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  #27  
Old 12-05-2004, 09:24 PM
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".......either method achieves the same "thorough" result"

The drain is usually at the very bottom of the oil pan... designed to be at the very bottom in order to do a good job of draining all the oil out of the engine...
On an old Mercedes the straight line down the oil dip stick hole may or may not be right above that drain hole... will have to look at mine to know one way or the other...

The other question is whether the 240 and the 300 share that same good or bad orientation... whichever exists...
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  #28  
Old 12-05-2004, 11:12 PM
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I have a compromise. Flip the car over and suck the oil out through the drain plug. This way everybody wins!

I actually bought one of the Jabsco pumps attached to a 5 gallon bucket. Not cheap, but with 4 cars and 2 boat engines (actually 3 with generator), this will get plenty of use. Years ago had a topsider and it was great. A few times I had trouble getting it to seal.
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  #29  
Old 12-06-2004, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang
That is the purpose... give people more than one side of the questions and answers....
However, the PHYSICS and LOGIC are all on my side on this one..... LOL
Greg,

Not to be argumentative, but on my 240Ds the drain plug is in the side of the oil pan, very close to the bottom, but not quite. It threads in from the side so the openning cannot be flush with the bottom. In the past, I used to jack the car up on one side to get the last bit out. I honestly do not think there is much difference between the topsider and draining with the car level or however it sits on a reasonably level plot of driveway.

I also use a topsider device that has a tube that fits all the way down the dipstick until it bottoms. And, I use Delvac 1. When I change the oil in my Diesels it stays clear for a while now. It never did that in the past, which I attribute to the use of Delvac 1 and regular, hot oil changes, which have all been done with a topsider (I have been using one since about 1987 and Delvac 1 for the last three years). The 1998 stays clear for about 150 or so miles and the 240D stays clear for about 20 miles. I do not think there is much crud left in the bottom of the pan if you use a very high quality oil and you change it hot and often, especially if the oil stays clear for more than a few seconds. The biggest benefit to your Diesel is removing the barrier to changing the oil. As I get older and creakier I find my Diesels are more and more grateful for the topsider than they might have been twenty years ago.

I use the hand pump type of of gadget because I found the rubber impellers in the electrically operated ones were not suited to synthetic oil (Delvac 1), or they were not suited to being thermally shocked. I never bothered to find out exactly which it was, although the manufacturer claimed the rubber was suitable for synthetic oil. Anyway, I stored the pump outside and, like Larry Bible says, I changed my oil hot. Maybe it is the thermal shock or maybe it is the oil, or both, but I found the rubber impellers worked for less than five oil changes. After the second impeller I threw the thing out and went back to the hand pump variety. The big 5 gallon container on the electric unit I had was its major convenience. That, and you could reverse the pump direction and pump the stuff back out. But changing the impeller mid-oil change in the freezing cold was not acceptable.

In reality both methods are acceptable. I am a permanent user of the topsider method because it makes it impossible to skip or delay an oil change with a clear conscience. I am also a dedicated user of Delvac 1. If getting that last drop of oil out to make sure you get all the goop out is really important, I would highly recommend this stuff. Changed hot, Delvac 1 definitely does not leave much junk in there changed either way. I am not sure this is the case with a lesser oil. Jim
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Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #30  
Old 12-06-2004, 12:34 AM
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sorry, but for me, the topsider would be an unjustifiable gadget. I SHOULD be under my car looking around to see if everything is OK when I remove the oil drain plug. BTW, I sort of hate to say this, but I think all the drain plugs fit a 13mm wrench way too loose. I use a 1/2" wrench on mine , but it fits like a glove. - I'll never round off the corners on it. Good thing, because 10 years from now I plan on still crawling underneath, removing that same trusty, oily old plug.
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