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rblookc 12-04-2004 05:32 PM

Any probs w/ oil change pumps?
I am thinking of getting a "topside" style oil change pump (to avoid getting under car) for a 1985 300D. Have there been any problems with getting the tube all the way in on this car? Any body use one?

Also, I was curious about this electric motored version (12V). Anybody heard anything positive or negative. Only 22 bucks.

Here's the link: &cm_cat=Yahoo%21%20Shopping%20Product%20Submit&cm_ite=DDI%20Link

leathermang 12-04-2004 05:52 PM

Well, as a matter of principle I will post this first reply to your question....
If you want to be able to take the oil out without getting under the car consider one of those fujimoto valves which you can access with a rod from the side of the car....
It is without a doubt better to change your oil HOT and OFTEN and with the use of gravity..... and many put a quart of oil into the top of the engine after the oil stops flowing strongly... in order to really flush more residue out...
But it is your car and it does not matter to me how you do it.... I am just posting my opinion for newbies to see the possibility of drawbacks......and I suspect that the topside oil units which come with new cars do a better job than a retro unit due to the possibility that the oil pan is not specifically designed to do this job well.
But everyone knows that I am an old conservative guy when it comes to machines.... so take that into account....

Pete Burton 12-04-2004 06:03 PM

I would think there would be little problem with your car because there is very little bend in the oil filler tube. However, Greg pretty much said it all in the previous post. No topside device will ever be as good as draining from the bottom

Luke 12-04-2004 06:40 PM

I've used a Topsider brand for years. Wouldn't switch back. I doubt there is any difference between it and a normal drain. Either way gravity gets the oil to the bottom of the pan, and it doesn't much matter whether the oil exits a hole, or gets pulled up a tube. An overnight gravity drain will get a bit more out. But a topsider could suck it up too. Depends how fastidious you want to be. Most of us change our oil twice as often as we need to anyway. In my second life it would be a toss-up if I wanted be come back for an easy life as a pampered cat, or an MB diesel in the care of one of our forum members. :P

rblookc 12-04-2004 07:20 PM

Thanks. Has anyone ever heard of these cheap electric pumps? Are they just a waste of time??

leathermang 12-04-2004 07:38 PM

Luke, How about the fact that the oil drain plug is located at the bottom of the oil pan...
Whereas the access through the oil dip tube likely does NOT go to that place... ?
Many people have not actually taken an oil pan off an engine and cleaned it... I have and know how much gunk can build up there EVEN with the FLUSH action of opening the drain plug.... and adding oil after the flow has stopped....

Luke 12-04-2004 08:24 PM

That gunk is going to build no matter what. On mine I have found no difference in oil replacement quantity regardless of method. I suppose I could clean the pan bottom by hand, but (and I must whisper because my car has an ego and may over-hear) even I don't love my car THAT much. :P

Hatterasguy 12-04-2004 08:38 PM

Do a search this has been discussed to death before. Draining the oil is a pain when the panals are on, when mine go back on I will be sucking it out. So what if a little is left in it doesn't matter, if you are unsure get two samples tested that you drained and two that you sucked out of the dipstick I bet the soot and dirt loading would be about the same.

leathermang 12-04-2004 08:40 PM

Why don't you try sucking everything out you can with the electric unit...
Then open the drain plug... I still think the heavy ugly stuff is at the bottom and is better evacuated by the flushing action of the oil...
And then after you have gotten what will come just by opening the drain plug.... try putting a quart of oil into the engine and see what ELSE comes out with that extra flushing action...
Of course you need to change to clean containers for each part of this test..
Yes, that gunk will build no matter what.... because I am describing the gunk which was left with me changing with the plug and hot...
I just think it would HAVE to be MORE with any other method....

leathermang 12-04-2004 08:43 PM

"Do a search this has been discussed to death before."
Then go read some other thread... it is a slow night and Luke and I want to discuss this...

Hatterasguy 12-04-2004 08:43 PM

Something else will kill my SDL before the engine wears out.

R Leo 12-04-2004 08:47 PM

First of all, Mercedes-Benz™ claims that all of their cars are designed to have the lube oil changed from the top and, I believe that they recommend topside oil changes over pulling the plug in the pan. I don't know what their rationale is for preferring one over the other but, it certainly goes against Forum 'conventional wisdom.'

Last summer, I experimented with a couple of topside oil changes using a homemade attachment that clamped over the dipstick tube and a hand operated plunger pump. With this crude system I was able to extract about 6 3/4 quarts of oil from the engine which is approximately 1/2 to 1 pint less volume than was put in at the prior oil change. Some of this shortage can be attributed to the oil remaining in the pan beneath the reach of the dipstick tube, oil remaining in the top end of the engine and oil consumption through operation. I've never actually measured how much oil get when I drain through the plug so I don't know how much more oil I recover when draining through the plug.

The thing I liked most about topsiding was that I could decant the oil from the engine straight into whatever container I wanted to use for disposal.

In support of topsiding, all the gassers I've ever been in appeared to make a lot of sludge and gunk that was built up in oil pans, in the valleys and blind spots in the head casting. In contrast (based on my brief experience), diesels are pretty clean on the heads and in the pan, that is, there's not nearly the sludge you see all over in a high-mile gasser engine so, draining at the plug, if it really does make a difference in getting the guck out, seems as if it would be less of a necessity in a diesel.

In thinking more about this, the lack of sludge is more likely a function of the type of oils specified for use in diesels. Diesel spec lube oil has much better soot suspension qualtities than normal motor oil. This feature probably contributes to a great deal of the diesel's sludge free nature by keeping the sludge producing guck in the oil longer so it either winds up in the filter or drained out of the engine at oil change time.

So, my thinking is that topsiding is probably as good away as any to change on diesels.

Flame suit on.

leathermang 12-04-2004 08:57 PM

Why are you guys Measuring to try to compare this ?
Suck it out,
open the drain plug to a different container,
change containers and put a quart into the oil fill hole....
then look at particularly the last two...
If the suction device is not squarely over the drain hole I can't imagine that it can do as good a job as the drain plug.... (ignoring the physics of the flushing action )....
If MB suggests that ALL their cars... even the 24 year old ones are better served by topsiding.. then why do they still put drain plugs into their oil pans ?

Keep in mind that a MB service center will make more money doing a fast suck job than having to drain it out...

Or they may be wanting to sell topsider evacuators...

Luke 12-04-2004 09:04 PM


Originally Posted by leathermang
"Do a search this has been discussed to death before."
Then go read some other thread... it is a slow night and Luke and I want to discuss this...

Actually.... I am done, and enjoying an adult egg-nog. Truely. This has been discussed to death over the years. Someone asked, I answered. 'Mang ponied-up an opinion too, and now the poor fellow who started the thread has something to read tonight. :D

leathermang 12-04-2004 09:09 PM

That is the purpose... give people more than one side of the questions and answers....
However, the PHYSICS and LOGIC are all on my side on this one..... LOL

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