not mb or diesel--help me
 

the 1994 grand am has developed a case of the stutters. fuel is usually bought at the same family station except three weeks ago when we went to the new citgo at the convience mart on sunday. the car developed a case of stutters from 0 to 20 mph. it has gotten progressively worse and is almost constant when the engine has gotten warm. the other night my wife felt the power drain away coming home on the i. when the engine is cold it runs fine. the mileage is dropping.

this year the fuel pump was replaced by the local pontiac dealer. last week we filled up with mobil premium thinking maybe the citgo was bad. i added a can of injector cleaner and a can of some water dryer. no diff. we are on tank 2 of mobil premium with no additives.

i saw the temp guage rising today above 220 and had the local goodyear dealer drain and flush the cooling system. there was some dirty brown af in the overflow that didn't cover the notches on the botom of the tank.

is it bad injectors? if not what?

Sounds like a fuel or electrical problem to me (maybe the fuel pump is going bad again?), has the fuel filter been changed, other than that it's hard to say. Does it show any codes or anything like that?

no
 

codes are coming up

83 240D,

With all the wonderful electronics and sensors on your Pontiac engine, it could be anything from the oxygen sensor to the computer.

You are in the wrong forum to get an answer. We Diesel addicts don't understand gasoline engines.

Take it to a tune up station with the proper test equipment and they can find the problem.

P E H

If the problem started right after the fill-up I'd suspect either dirty fuel causing plugged filters or water contamination. Check your fuel filter(s) and add some fuel line anti-freeze to the tank. This time of year you could be getting some freezing in the fuel lines.

With the electronics and rise in temperature, the FI system may be trying to change the fuel enrichment or leaness to help control the temp. Like P.E.Haiges said, you're in the wrong forum for help.

It shouldn't run that hot.

If your engine trouble light is not comming on it could be fuel related i suppose. Why not drive down to the place your brought fuel just before the problem started and ask them if they had other complaints? Better to go in person if local so you can access the character of the individual answering your questions. You could have gotten a very lean burn that drove your temperature up from fuel starvation i imagine. As other people mentioned kind of in the wrong forum but have had bad fuel problem with gas myself it does happen. We are always optomistic as well looking for the easiest way out. Does not work usually but worth the try. :sun_smile

does the Grand Am have a Quad 4 engine? If it does, you need to dump it as fast as you can...

nope
 

its the base engine but 16 valves.

as to why i posted here it is because there are a large number of techs who work on gas and diesel engines. knowledge is where you find it. i have found a lot of knowledgeable folks here and they have found me.

Could be a bad plug, wire , module. If it's the quad4 engine and everything's original, chances are the module/plug wire assembly is jumping spark internally. Could be early signs of a head problem. You mentioned rising temps and dirty brown fluid in the antifreeze. Is it an oily substance? These are just a few possibilities. On modern cars (80s and up), there are so many possibilities that it's best to have it checked out by a good shop (not a quick lube place).

It's not the base engine, but an upgraded engine, it will say "Quad 4" on the cam cover. If it's a Quad 4, you need to dump it as fast as you can, since it may appear to be a small simple problem, but will end up costing several thousand dollars. Those engines like to crack heads and blow head gaskets, which isn't really an easy diy'er job.

well it isn't
 

the high performance quad 4. it does say quad ohc but there is no power just great hiway mileage.

the brown stuff looked liked well used up anti freeze. i have never seen af so brown and there were little particles in it. no oil that i could determine.


thanks

There are two Quad motors it can be. One is the Quad 4 dual overhead cam. The other is a single overhead cam. If the cover is arced evenly over two cam towers then it's a quad 4 dohc. If it's arched towards the front over a single cam tower and makes a 90° turn down to the head (on the firewall side) then it's a sohc quad motor. The cover over the top(s) of the cam tower(s) houses the module assembly. Four bolts hold that cover on. Remove it and flip it over. Remove the little screws and disassmble the module assembly. Check inside for moisture or anyplaces that look like spark has been arching. The plug wires are actually just boots and should come with springs that act as a wire.

okay thanks phantoms. tomorrow.

try a good basic tune up first. plugs, and replace that module. get the timing checked by a shop or someone who has experience in this car.
if this doesn't cure it... trade it off, cause the others are right, this is a problem engine. trade for anything non-Ford. preferably a good ol american make Toyota.