I don't know how many of you fellows have the new VWs -TDIs but I have a '99 New Beetle TDI and while it is a joy to drive and gets great mileage after reviewing the various posts on the-- http://www.tdi.club.com concerning the various and never ending electric gliches and gremlins that seem to be never ending it makes me want to sell my Very nice little tornado red TDI Beetle. I haven't had any momentous problems yet but from the TDI postings I am wondering When--the TDI motors seem great but the electrical systems are the weak link of what otherwise are pretty good cars--considering the original base price. The MB mechanic I currently use services high end Benzes and Bmws mostly but also a few TDI-VWs and he tells me that these new Audi-VW electrical systems are the worst he has seen in 28 yrs as a mechanic. On the other side of the coin-a friend has an old VW golf-around a 86 model I beleive -with 495000 on the clock--he runs the dog crap out of it-back and forth to NYC from Miami at 75 mph and it runs like a clock-problem free-a little smoke now--bought it for $500 4 years ago. Already have 2 old 240Ds so I am going to push to get one of them road worthy and save myself some stress worrying about the electrical glitches found on the new TDIs. If you guys don't look at this site-(tdiclub) go there sometime and check out the problems some of these folks are having--it will give you food for thought if you are thinking about getting rid of your old MB diesels.

fyi: my '96 Passat tdi sold recently w/150k never experienced any of the electrical gremlins mentioned by some newer tdi owners--none. I simply sold it to offset the purchase of a new home, but I would heartily recommend them to anyone else, with the caveat that one must religiously replace the timing belt at the recommended interval. Great cars.

80"s VW"s are an amazing piece of machinery..
While they may not be the most beautiful cars
Or the most comofortable..

They get massive mileage (turbo diesel in mind)
Electrical system is sealed and simple...ever looked at a 1.8L rabbit?
The cars were designed with old VW simplicity in mind but throwing in a radiator and playing with the new advantages of water cooling. Amazing machines...

We took a 1.8L engine out of a old jetta (probably 100k? miles) and threw it in a dune buggy. We also added a subaru turbo and then just played around with the fuel system. That engine was detonated like no other as we tinkered with the fuel delivery trying to get it right. Just about the time the fuel was set properly the engine started smoking like mad (given this thing had taken some serious abuse...multiple trips while detonating).

Pulled it apart expecting pistons wasted and all sorts of bad stuff...however...
Rings were broken...thats it...the rest was fine.
Those engines are bulletproff and the systems around them were made to last.
I am impressed. Sad to hear that VW is letting down the buyers with their new systems. The beetles are sure nice machines...even inside!

There are some nice A1 and A2 VW's running around with TDI transplants. Impressive setups.

__________________
One more Radar Lover gone...
1982 VW Caddy diesel 406K 1.9L AAZ
1994 E320 195K

One major advantage in ditching ANY new car, TDI or otherwise in favour of an old MB Diesel is that the old Benz will probably never be worth less than it is today. This was my main reasoning to convince myself (and my wife) that I needed to sell my 2000 Focus ZTS and buy the '76 300D. The Focus had not given me any major problems, although I could "feel" a few coming on, but in 3 years of ownership, it had depreciated over $4500- far more than what I paid for the Benz in depreciation alone.

Previous to the MB, I had owned nothing but VW, the last one being a '91 Passat 16V gasser, which was without a doubt the worst car I had ever owned in terms of repairs needed, even if it was one of the nicest in terms of ride, handling, power, etc. Before the Passat, there was a string of 4 or 5 80's VW Diesels, which were simply amazing cars. I'm hoping my experience with the 300D, even though it is 29 years old, will be somewhere in between that of the VW Diesels, and the trouble-prone VW "Pass-the-hat".

Dave

There is something I'd like to see....what it takes to put a TDI into an A1 chassis........would be far easier into a A2 chassis as they have more space.

The A1 is the lightest chassis of all....turn up the TDI a bit and you would hav awesum performance, and even better milage.

I have been considering a TDI Jetta or Gulf to replace my Saturn... and manybe the honda too, to keep insurance costs down....those electrical gremlins have scared me too.

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

No problems at all with my 2002 Jetta TDI Wagon, no problem with a colleagues 2002 Golf TDI either. I am always very cautious about interpreting a small but vocal group as statistical evidence of a widespread problem.

You are actually thinking of selling a car you have had no problems with because someone else has had problems?

Kevin

__________________
'85 300SD

We owned a 2001 TDI Golf until it was totalled at 35k miles and now have a 2003 TDI Golf. Knock on wood, we have had no problems save a leaking intercooler hose and a ripped seat seam. I did have the ABS indicate a fault on the 2001 after driving in deap snow but it went away the next time I drove it and the dealer found no fault when I took it in. The problem with VW, in my opinion, is that they have a poor customer service response for the problems they have had. The driver's seat on our current car ripped at 15k at a side seam and the car has a long bumper to bumper warranty. To get it fixed would have required multiple dealer visits so that the regional supervisor could make the call. While they weren't rude, they were unresponsive. If the customers with the broken power windows, faulty ignition coils and software faults in the PD diesels are getting the same half-response, then I understand why VW has a problem with its image. Very few people are getting stranded on the side of the road but alot of them are making payments on a car that is stranded at the dealer.

__________________
Rich Mason
Chapel Hill, NC
1990 300D 285k miles
1993 VW Cabriolet converted to 1.6 TD
1985 VW Westfalia 1.6 TD

The forums at www.vwvortex.com, it's been done. Some of the performance guys are doing just crazy stuff with TDI's and still getting great mileage, better than nay 240D, and god knows there faster. I'll get around to it one day..

__________________
One more Radar Lover gone...
1982 VW Caddy diesel 406K 1.9L AAZ
1994 E320 195K

What.. you sold the Passat without emailing me first? Darn.. I've been looking for one of those too....

__________________
--------------------------------------------
1960 MB 190Db w/ full sunroof
1985 Toyota Pickup
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL R&N
2001 VW Jetta GLS TDI

What is comes down to is what is your TDI Beetle worth? If you can't get what you want for it then you might as well keep it until it starts giving you more trouble than its worth. Then you can dump it. My buddy has an 00 TDI Beetle with 100K. Regular maintenence, and some headlight bulbs and NO issues. The one advantage you have is being in Miami. No winter salt so your old MB's can be driven year round and likely last a lifetime. Tough to be the 45mpg of the TDI though. RT

__________________
When all else fails, vote from the rooftops!
84' Mercedes Benz 300D Anthracite/black, 171K
03' Volkswagen Jetta TDI blue/black, 93K
93' Chevrolet C2500HD ExCab 6.5TD, Two-tone blue, 252K

In my case, the Jetta TDI I used to own was fairly expensive to insure. I never had any major problems with it... I think I had a MAF fail and some interior trim that began peeling... Oh, I did have one wheel speed sensor for the ABS replaced.. It was a fun car and I loved the mileage.

__________________
--------------------------------------------
1960 MB 190Db w/ full sunroof
1985 Toyota Pickup
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL R&N
2001 VW Jetta GLS TDI

The VWs have a 12 year Corrosion Warranty(transferable) along with Audi it is the longest of any vehicles. The shop I go to works on a lot of late model MBs and he tells how they to have downgraded the quality.\(MBs)--it is just not VWs--he could have any of the newer benzes but his cars--ALL 300 TDs from 82-85. He lets us customers use these as loaners--How often do you see a shop doing this in this day and age?? Other then routine maintenence--I have replaced a starter and the Glo Plugs and soon the GloPlug harness needs replacing--they are fragile and this is an issue with many TDIs. I bought it used on eBay for $6k one year ago and it hasn't been a bad car only I see all those complaints about the electrical glitches--its starting to get on my nerves. I guess I compare it to my old 300TD(81) and it seemed like nothing ever went wrong with that car other then normal maintenence and a few parts that just wore out after 23 years of use.

If it seems that the most of vw's problems are with customer service, I wonder if purchasing a TDI that has outworn its mechanical warranty, or even hasnt (just to avoid dealer service hang-ups) and having it serviced by a reputable indie would make more sense. Ive always been fond of VW for continuing to offfer a TDI in North America... and Ive always thought that a newer TDI Jetta would be a nice alternative to a civic or other comparable compact as a daily driver. This route may not be cheaper than a comparble compact (Civic/Corolla etc..)in terms of running costs, but if the objective is to have a daiily runner powered by diesel, to lessen the wear and tear on a classic MB Diesel (which would be my reason for adding a Jetta TDI to the stable) its seems like it may be worth the trouble. I gotta have diesel!
What a miracle it would be if MB re-released the 617 engines!!!! Yes I am a dreamer.

Great thread btw!

Happy dieseling!

__________________
Nate

1995 E420
1992 BMW 525i
1984 300D Turbo sold
1993 Volvo 244 sold
1995 Volvo 944T R.I.P!


"The details are not details. They make the product."
-Charles Eames

www.cbs.nu

AS the warranty on my VW was long gone when I bought it I have always went to an Independent shop with good results. Ase Certified of course. The owner cut his teeth rebuilding Beetles 28 years ago so he has a grasp on the beetles. I designed some some unusual rocker panel guards out of Diamond plate aluminum and they run from the front fender to the front of the rear fender and wrap down and around and under the rocker panels. They are attached with Aircraft Rivets the size of a Dime. I like to get close to the drive-thru ATMs ---its a Tornado Red GLS with black leather interior and all the bells and whistles. Also designed a aluminum belly pan to replace that piece of crap thin plastic pan the factory installs. With those Diamond Plate Rocker Panel Guards-it looks like an off road Rally Car. Those little diesels pull llike crazy in the lower gears--gobs of torque. My one big problem is I don't drive it as hard as I should-what it needs are weekly runs at 80mph on the interstate for an hour or so to blow it out. You need skinny rubber man like arms and hands to get around in that engine--not much room. In the MB diesels(oldies) lots of room to get at most everything. My Old Volvo 240s were also great to work on in the engine compartment-so much space you could sit inside and do your work should you choose to. Ah, the price of progress!!!