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  #61  
Old 01-09-2005, 08:36 AM
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If this many people feel this badly about the Police and Traffic Courts..

As the son of immigrants, I always try to take special pains to understand both sides of the story. Also I realize when I was young i was a bit hot headed and unwise, and now I try to be calmer and more understanding, which is harder and harder to do as you get to be 45, tired and grouchy all the time..
Maybe the upside of all of this is the dramatic reduction in Drunk Driving. The last time I was in Court I saw 6 people lose their license because of DUI's. Also statistically speaking, amybe the roads are indeed safer.
After all how many times when I had my 240D was I almost run down by some Housewife with a 300HP SUV..
On the other hand I always see tuned cars racing down the highway and weaving in and out, doing 90, who never get a ticket, whereas I always seem to be getting tickets for harmless, absent minded offenses, like making a turn against traffic flow in an unoccupied School Parking Lot on a Sunday going to run on the Track...

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  #62  
Old 01-09-2005, 11:00 AM
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Around here Quotas are Illegal................

However cops are expected to write a certain number of tickets or they get disciplined.....

To me thats a quota but they argue it isn't because they don't call it a quota.

I got this info FROM cops. Total BS in my mind.
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  #63  
Old 01-09-2005, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
Around here Quotas are Illegal................

However cops are expected to write a certain number of tickets or they get disciplined.....

To me thats a quota but they argue it isn't because they don't call it a quota.

I got this info FROM cops. Total BS in my mind.
Well, the official told us that they didn't use qoutas too. However when you calculate the tickets per shift down to 2 decimal places and calculate it whenever you shift the officer around and later fire him on that basis, your first statement of not using quotas gets laughed at to me. Just because officially you deny using qoutas and swear to me on a stack of bibles doens't mean squat to me. Criminals swear in court that they tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth too. Doesn't mean I believe them
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  #64  
Old 01-09-2005, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim
Well, the official told us that they didn't use qoutas too. However when you calculate the tickets per shift down to 2 decimal places and calculate it whenever you shift the officer around and later fire him on that basis, your first statement of not using quotas gets laughed at to me. Just because officially you deny using qoutas and swear to me on a stack of bibles doens't mean squat to me. Criminals swear in court that they tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth too. Doesn't mean I believe them

Exactly.....................

Cops are more crooked than many criminals......
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  #65  
Old 01-09-2005, 02:35 PM
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Aklim, I don't care what you believe. You clearly already have a preconceived notion that offiecers are bad anyways. I'm telling you that I have never worked at a place that had a quota. They are not legal. At both the agencies that I worked for if I never wrote a citation, there would not be a damn thing they could do to me. However if you never wrote a ticket and never made an arrest or did anything someone would ask what the hell you were doing out on the street. I don't care if my word doesn't mean squat to you. When I talk to people who have no understanding of law enforcement in America and they have their ignorant ideas about officers and agencies, I just encourage them to go for a ride along w/ a local agency. Go get certified, get a reserve position and strap a gun and badge on just once a week. Funny how your trust of officers change when you're screaming for help and you know there's a group of individuals who are putting their lives on the line to get to you as fast as possible. Funny how your feelings change when you see officers going above and beyond to try to get help for a drug addict that in the past an officer has repeatedly arrested, and had to fight. Funny how your feeling change when you see cops openly crying at the scene of a crime where a totally innocent person is killed.

The fact that anyone would write that the cops are more crooked than the criminals truly shows the backward thinking of many Americans.
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  #66  
Old 01-09-2005, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan157

The fact that anyone would write that the cops are more crooked than the criminals truly shows the backward thinking of many Americans.
That's our BHD talking. This is the same individual who states that the "liberals" should pay for the war in Iraq. Many erroneous conclusions without basis in fact.

Personally, I wish the police would write more tickets. I'm sick and tired of driving on a service road to a major highway where the limit is 40 mph. I drive it at 45 mph and every single $hitbox flies by at 60 mph. It is a flagrant violation of the law and grossly unsafe. There are vehicles turning into and out of commercial establishments along the route.

And, so what if there are quotas? I think that you must have law enforcement if you are going to get any of these morons to obey the law.
Have you seen the time delay at red lights lately? It's up to two seconds of red in both directions because that is the typical red light runner. I've easily been able to approach a red light and stop, only to have the $hitbox fly around me on the shoulder and run the light at 3 seconds after the change.

If you want to break the law, then be prepared to pay the fine. Stop whining about the police doing their jobs. I'm proud to have them, and, if one of them catches me going 65 in a 55, well, so be it. I'll pay the fine. Now, I wish they would nail the $hitbox that is going 75 in a 55, but, I full well understand that it is a random thing. If I am by myself, and the radar has a straight shot at me going 65 mph, then I'm getting the ticket.

95% of the police are decent fellows doing a difficult job. Have some respect for them.

Last edited by Brian Carlton; 01-09-2005 at 03:56 PM.
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  #67  
Old 01-09-2005, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan157
Aklim, I don't care what you believe. You clearly already have a preconceived notion that offiecers are bad anyways. I'm telling you that I have never worked at a place that had a quota. They are not legal. At both the agencies that I worked for if I never wrote a citation, there would not be a damn thing they could do to me. However if you never wrote a ticket and never made an arrest or did anything someone would ask what the hell you were doing out on the street. I don't care if my word doesn't mean squat to you. When I talk to people who have no understanding of law enforcement in America and they have their ignorant ideas about officers and agencies, I just encourage them to go for a ride along w/ a local agency. Go get certified, get a reserve position and strap a gun and badge on just once a week. Funny how your trust of officers change when you're screaming for help and you know there's a group of individuals who are putting their lives on the line to get to you as fast as possible. Funny how your feelings change when you see officers going above and beyond to try to get help for a drug addict that in the past an officer has repeatedly arrested, and had to fight. Funny how your feeling change when you see cops openly crying at the scene of a crime where a totally innocent person is killed.

The fact that anyone would write that the cops are more crooked than the criminals truly shows the backward thinking of many Americans.
So explain to me why that cop got fired then. And explain to me why they were able to qoute how many citations he issued to 2 decimal places and to compare it to other cops who took over that patrol. Yes, I know that the places you were at would look hard if you didn't have any paperwork for weeks on end. This is a case where he had tickets, just not as many as others. So, we know he was working because he had the tickets but got fired for not having as many as other officers. WHY?

You keep repeating that they are not legal. We all know that. However, as long as they are keeping track and have fired someone for it, how am I supposed to believe you or anyone that tells me that the number they write is not significant is some way?

Also, if most of the cops I meet have an attitude, what would you have me believe? That the next 1000 I meet are really nice people? Yes, my next door neighbour is a cop and while I have not met him professionally, he seems nice enough. However, 2 good cops is not enough to offset the fact that most of them I meet have an attitude when performing their jobs. I don;t mind that you write me a ticket. Just do your job and leave me alone. Don't try to show me what a big guy you can be. Is that too much to ask? Maybe you are a nice guy and will just do your job. Maybe your department is like that. I don't know. All I can rate it is based on the times I get pulled over and the number of those stops that turned into a demonstration of attitude.

Look, if everytime you bought a car with a 606 motor and the glow plugs were so stuck that it needed a head removal to get it out but everyone else is telling you how good they are, what would YOU believe?
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  #68  
Old 01-09-2005, 05:12 PM
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I can attest to the fact that there are speed traps worked by crooked police. That crooked police hassle and molest women drivers. That crooked cops deal drugs and beat up perps. All this and more is true of police as it is true of civilians. We are all only human. But I can tell you this also that there is a larger percentage of honest, hard working police than they are average citizens.

I have been driving for about 50 years and have gotten easily over 100 tickets in the States and overseas. I drive fast, but not recklessly, I slide through stop signs, I sometimes don't have my insurance with me (but I am always insured), I used to have loud pipes on my motorcycle, the list goes on and on. But one thing I can tell you is that in all the years I have been driving I have NEVER, EVER gotten a ticket that I didn't deserve. I have never been hassled by a cop, even here in the South. The police, esp. the Highway Patrol here in Texas are some of the most courteous people that I have ever dealt with. When you consider the level of people that they must deal with on a daily basis it is amazing that they don't just beat the crap out of everyone that they stop as a matter of policy.

I have never been hassled because I am a white male, with a good education, that speaks English reasonably well, and is polite to the police. Were I a local S. Texas Hispanic with a shaved head, covered in tattoos, crusing the White neighborhoods at 3am with a car full of my 'vatos' I can imagine that I might get the attention of the local police and not be treated with kid gloves. The police target these people because at a minimum 95% of the crime here in S. Texas is caused by the above type of people.

I am not a right wing, NRA, pro Bush, pro war zelot. I am noticably left of center in which case I should be considered anti-police. But, my experiences has shown me that even though many police are not the birghtest bulb in the fixture (if they were you for sure wouldn't get them to do their job for the pittance that they are paid) most are good people doing a hard job with little support and recognition. My brother was a long time cop and finally had to give it up simply because he couldn't raise a family on a $1,400 a month salary.

I say that if you are being targeted by the police you are doing something to attract their attention. Slow down and I bet you won't get any more tickets. Now if I could only convince my son and myself to do that.
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  #69  
Old 01-09-2005, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
And, so what if there are quotas? I think that you must have law enforcement if you are going to get any of these morons to obey the law.
Yes, you need law enforcement to get people to obey the laws. However, as to qoutas, let me ask you this. If I have only had 20 tickets this month and I know that I want to make that promotion and I see that people who get promoted have 30 tickets a month and lets say my supervisor swears that the ticket numbers have nothing to do with promotion, what is to stop me from ticketing you just so I can meet my perceieved number to get me a promotion? IOW, what is to stop me from ticketing you whether you were going the speed limit or not? If I write you a ticket for going 20 over and you contest it in court, who do you think the judge will believe?

I have goten ticked for 95 in a 55 when I know I was doing 75. Did the judge believe me? Nope. I fought it because I didn't want to be suspended and finally they agreed that if I pleaded to 10 over, we would settle the case. Yes, I know I was doing 10 over but didn't see the speed change on the interstate. Yes, it was my fault but should I have got ticketed for 40 over when it was 20 over?
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  #70  
Old 01-09-2005, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim
...... what is to stop me from ticketing you just so I can meet my perceieved number to get me a promotion? IOW, what is to stop me from ticketing you whether you were going the speed limit or not? If I write you a ticket for going 20 over and you contest it in court, who do you think the judge will believe?
Have you driven a motor vehicle on a public highway in the last 5 years? Do you think it is very difficult to find someone going 10 over? Whoops...........what did I say............yep, I'll answer my own question. The officer might have a hard time finding someone going 10 over because the average $hitbox is going 20 over. If the limit is 30 the $hitbox is going 50. If the limit is 55, the $hitbox is going 75.

Why would the officer need to write a ticket for someone going the limit?

Now, writing you for going faster than you think you were going can be attributed to other issues. The radar, as you know, does not tell the officer who is going the fastest speed, and, I'm quite sure that mistakes have been made. You may be going 75 in the left and the $hitbox is going 85 and passing you in the center. The officer may believe that you are going 85 because you are in the left lane. These situations happen becasue it is not an exact science unless you are the only vehicle on the road.

You were clearly able to get the justice that you deserved in court. Of course, you had to go to court and fight the ticket. But, I'm quite sure that you would have done that anyway, if he ticketed you for 75 in a 55.

BTW, I've got no sympathy for you if you think you can drive 20 over and get away with it. If you are driving 25 over in New York, you can be arrested on the spot for reckless driving.

Last edited by Brian Carlton; 01-09-2005 at 06:44 PM.
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  #71  
Old 01-09-2005, 06:35 PM
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A few weeks ago I was going with the flow (about 70 MPH, speed limit 55 MPH) in my 300D northbound on I-5 throught the infamous Terwilliger curves just south of Portland OR. I saw a Portland PD cruiser on the right shoulder idling. It was quit cold that afternoon and the cruiser's exhaust had some steam. I didn't realize until I got closer that I had a speed gun aimed at me by the cop . As I sped by him I saw him with an angry face yelling at me,"SLOW DOWN!" I was in the process of slowing down at the time but I galnced sown at my speedometer and it was at just over 70 MPH. I guess I was lucky since he didn't choose to persue me. I kind of laughed at the situation mainly since I can still remember the cop's angry face. If he had stopped me I would have probably not seen the humor in the situation.
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  #72  
Old 01-09-2005, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan157
Aklim, I don't care what you believe. You clearly already have a preconceived notion that offiecers are bad anyways. I'm telling you that I have never worked at a place that had a quota. They are not legal. At both the agencies that I worked for if I never wrote a citation, there would not be a damn thing they could do to me. However if you never wrote a ticket and never made an arrest or did anything someone would ask what the hell you were doing out on the street. I don't care if my word doesn't mean squat to you. When I talk to people who have no understanding of law enforcement in America and they have their ignorant ideas about officers and agencies, I just encourage them to go for a ride along w/ a local agency. Go get certified, get a reserve position and strap a gun and badge on just once a week. Funny how your trust of officers change when you're screaming for help and you know there's a group of individuals who are putting their lives on the line to get to you as fast as possible. Funny how your feelings change when you see officers going above and beyond to try to get help for a drug addict that in the past an officer has repeatedly arrested, and had to fight. Funny how your feeling change when you see cops openly crying at the scene of a crime where a totally innocent person is killed.

The fact that anyone would write that the cops are more crooked than the criminals truly shows the backward thinking of many Americans.
Titan, I know police In PA, VA, MD, and DC, every one of these jurisdictions WILL and DO discipline officers who write fewer tickets than they are expected to write.....we all know this is illegal and yet it currently takes place.
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  #73  
Old 01-09-2005, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
That's our BHD talking. This is the same individual who states that the "liberals" should pay for the war in Iraq. Many erroneous conclusions without basis in fact.

Personally, I wish the police would write more tickets. I'm sick and tired of driving on a service road to a major highway where the limit is 40 mph. I drive it at 45 mph and every single $hitbox flies by at 60 mph. It is a flagrant violation of the law and grossly unsafe. There are vehicles turning into and out of commercial establishments along the route.

And, so what if there are quotas? I think that you must have law enforcement if you are going to get any of these morons to obey the law.
Have you seen the time delay at red lights lately? It's up to two seconds of red in both directions because that is the typical red light runner. I've easily been able to approach a red light and stop, only to have the $hitbox fly around me on the shoulder and run the light at 3 seconds after the change.

If you want to break the law, then be prepared to pay the fine. Stop whining about the police doing their jobs. I'm proud to have them, and, if one of them catches me going 65 in a 55, well, so be it. I'll pay the fine. Now, I wish they would nail the $hitbox that is going 75 in a 55, but, I full well understand that it is a random thing. If I am by myself, and the radar has a straight shot at me going 65 mph, then I'm getting the ticket.

95% of the police are decent fellows doing a difficult job. Have some respect for them.

Brian....you obviously have more ethical cops in your local than any area I have ever lived...............

I have actually been cited for what i was actually doing TWICE in my life.....

I have been cited for 20+ three times when I in fact was not eceeding the limit at all and once when I was actually going UNDER the posted limit.

Every time I have been cited the Cop always had a major attitude and was exagerating the speed I was going.......and I never have been stopped when I was not FULLY aware of my speed.

And My speedo has been calibrated and is dead on below 60 was 1 mph high thrugh 90 and was 2 mph high at 100mph. And have calibration records to prove it.

OH, One of those cops was a Lieutenant........of the State Police.
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Last edited by boneheaddoctor; 01-09-2005 at 07:19 PM.
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  #74  
Old 01-09-2005, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
Why would the officer need to write a ticket for someone going the limit?

Now, writing you for going faster than you think you were going can be attributed to other issues. The radar, as you know, does not tell the officer who is going the fastest speed, and, I'm quite sure that mistakes have been made. You may be going 75 in the left and the $hitbox is going 85 and passing you in the center. The officer may believe that you are going 85 because you are in the left lane. These situations happen becasue it is not an exact science unless you are the only vehicle on the road.

You were clearly able to get the justice that you deserved in court. Of course, you had to go to court and fight the ticket. But, I'm quite sure that you would have done that anyway, if he ticketed you for 75 in a 55.

BTW, I've got no sympathy for you if you think you can drive 20 over and get away with it. If you are driving 25 over in New York, you can be arrested on the spot for reckless driving.
Well, you were asking bout quotas so I thought I'd answer your question. Maybe I wasn't clear so let me try again. Why would I need to ticket you for going the limit? Because I need to get my qoutas so I can get a promotion or at least not look bad in front of my supervisor. Lets say that qoutas are ok, like you suggested. I am a cop that needs to meet the qouta. What is to stop me from ticketing you for going say 10 over even if you were going 5 under just to meet the number of tickets I need to hand in tonight? You argue it and who do you think the judge is going to believe? That you were goin under or that I said that you were 10 over? That is why I disagree with qoutas be it openly stated or hinted at. It would force the officer to ticket you or risk his job.

I was the only vehicle on the road unless you count the cars a quarter mile ahead or the ones way behind. So under those circumcisons, I would expect him to be exact.

No, I wouldn't have driven 100 miles to fight a ticket that I deserved. This was not a fair one. If I didn't fight it I would lose my licence for a while so I had to fight it. How did I get the justice I deserved? I had to fight like hell with a lawyer and be present in court, solicit a lawyer for 40 over. Sure, for my trouble it got to be 10 over. At 20 over, I wouldnt have to drive 100 miles there and 100 back and hire a lawyer. So yes, I am pissed about it.

I drove 10 over which was what I was pacing everyone ahead of me at. That area was a notorious speedtrap because suddenly it drops to 55 from 65 and many people get caught unawares. Still, I am not *****ing about that. I am *****ing about 40 over when it was 20 over. How would you feel if you were doing 10 over and got busted for 30 over and might have to lose your licence so you have to fight it even it is a long ways away?
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  #75  
Old 01-09-2005, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
Titan, I know police In PA, VA, MD, and DC, every one of these jurisdictions WILL and DO discipline officers who write fewer tickets than they are expected to write.....we all know this is illegal and yet it currently takes place.
Like it makes a difference if qoutas are illegal. As long as I don't tell you openly that I am disciplining you for qoutas and I trump up some other excuse I can get away with it. I can pick on you for other petty stuff till your numbers go up but everyone will be fine since I am not disciplining you for not getting enough busts.

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