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  #1  
Old 01-15-2005, 09:58 PM
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turbo oil drain question

ive seen the how-to's on replacing the seals on the turbo oil drain...and quite frankly, they scare me...i dont even want to mess with it....im pretty mechanically inclined, and can figure things out relatively easily, but i think this is a project that would do more for pissing me off than fixing an oil leak....could anyone tell me what i might be expected to pay to have the seals replaced? i know the parts are pretty cheap, but what kind of time frame might a mechanic need to do this? i figure if i can get it done for less than $150, itd be well worth it to hand it over to them...

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Old 01-15-2005, 10:32 PM
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Ah, Come On, Where is your spirit of adventure ?
The seals are really cheap...
Or, in the alternative, why don't you really clean the area the best you can and try some Red Silicone Gasket sealer ?
I do not think the oil in the area is under pressure... so good sanding, cleaning and waiting 24 hours after you apply the Silicone might fix it.
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  #3  
Old 01-15-2005, 11:22 PM
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ha, i think i have quite the spirit of adventure....im about to replace the B2 piston in my transmission, without pulling it....i think thatll be all the adventure i need to cope with for at least a little while....i may end up trying to fix the seals on the turbo drain, and the silicone sounds like a decent temporary fix....ill probably try that first...i just dont want to fool around with pulling the turbo and manifold, and whatever else is in that 3 miles long narrative on how to do it....i need to clean everything under the car before i start on the B2 piston anyway, so while im cleaning i might as well go ahead and clean off the spot where the oil is leaking and try the silicone....sure cant hurt anything....thanks, mang
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  #4  
Old 01-15-2005, 11:29 PM
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I do not think it is necessary to pull the manifold and turbine to replace those seals... I do not think you even HAVE to pull the lower pan.... although I think that makes it easier to get a good fix... ( if you don't count all the work of pulling the lower pan ) ....
Do a search... I think people have described doing it with things in place... two bolts at the top holding one gasket, one ring in the middle and the one going into the pan...
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  #5  
Old 01-16-2005, 01:23 AM
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The factory MB turbo drain setup is a joke. Almost impossible to get at the flange on the turbo, who in their right mind would install an o-ring seal slip-fit in the upside down position, is asking for a leak. The lower tube is impossible to pull free without liberal cutting of the lower seal with a utility knife..... The whole setup sucks. I changed all the seals when I had the thing apart for a headgasket but doing it just for the turbo drain is silly IMHO. RT
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  #6  
Old 01-16-2005, 01:41 AM
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Its not an elegently designed system, no doubt about that. I'd rather change the lower turbo oil drain pipe and seal than the oil cooler hoses.

You don't need to pull the pan. You don't need to pull the manifold or the exhaust. Where have you been reading this stuff?

Two bolts that admittedly are awkward to reach. Once those are taken out, you can wrestle the two pipe pieces apart. Where they intersect each other, push that toward the right front corner of the car. There is just enough clearance, so they pop apart. Its kind of like that wire jig saw puzzle with the ring and the twisted wire, moving it just so releases it.

Once the two pipes are apart (the top one will come out), you'll need to fasten a hose clamp around the lower pipe. Place a screw driver against the clamp and bang away at it upwards. The pipe will move up and out. You can pick out the hardened seal with a cheap set of picks from Harbor Freight.

Installation is the reverse. Same situation with putting those pipes back together. Angleing them in from the right front corner will get them in place.
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  #7  
Old 01-16-2005, 12:48 PM
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I found out that the original intake/exhaust manifold seal has a design issue that makes it more likely to leak than the new-style replacement. It has to do with the tendency for the bolts to get loose over time and then leakage can occur through the gasket "sandwich". I was leaking considerable oil blowby (mean for combustion) down the side of the engine out of the intake manifold. [ Blowby oil mist is routed to the intake manifold for combustion. ]

It is relatively easy to deal with the turbo drain seals if you pull the turbo. After that's out you can get the manifold gasket replaced too. These two gasket/seal systems plus the oil separator o-rings made for a much cleaner engine on the 1982 300D, and I plan to do the same on the 300SD later this year.

I also took off the lower oil pan, and while it was good to conduct an inspection and replace the gasket, if you perform the turbo removal then its not necessary to take off the oil pan. I took off the lower oil pan thinking that the lower drain tube section could be pushed downward out of the oil pan area - it can not be pushed in that direction, it has to go upwards.

There was no leakage whatsoever from the upper turbo drain tube -to- turbo gasket, and that was never unbolted in my case.

Don't use any RTV on a replacement turbo seal - there's too much motion and it will break loose and leak. Instead rely on the new grommet and o-ring down there.

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  #8  
Old 01-16-2005, 02:10 PM
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Well I have done the turbo drain tube twice and never done the B2 valve.
It is a very doable job as long as you set yourself up for any potential problem, then you will be ready and the job can be done.
Buy a lower oil pan gagket JUST IN CASE. if the tube is apart you can't run down to the dealer to get the gasket.
As posted you remove the tubes by pushing them towards the front right corner of the car once the upper bolts have been removed.
To remove them is a bit of a pain but patients will get you results.
IIRC one bolt is removed with a long (18" and universal) extension from below the engine and slightly behind the turbo. the other IIRC was with a stubby ratchet and a 2-3 inch extension on the universal. Once the bolts are removed, move the tubes joint towards the front right corner of the car. To make it easier I unbolted the AC hose from the engine block, One 17mm, I think, bolt and the hose moves over 1-2 inches. Once the tube seperates then drop the upper tube and then pull upward on the lower tube. remove the lower tube rubber gasket and install a new one lubricated with oil.
Now the short cuts. Use some permatex "high tack" gasket sealant to attach the new turbo gasket to the upper tube. Cover all orings with oil and install both tubes by placing the separation part at the front right corner of the car, mate the tubes while moving them onto position. I do remember rotating the upper tube while doing this so it cleared various engine parts.
Once in position a magnetic socket helper and a spring universal helps install the screws. They can be done by hand if you hand is not to big. I'm 6' 2" and have large hands, I can do it by hand.
Once you get the screws started then tighten them as you did while remoing them.
While dong this my car was on jack stands and I had a creaper to get around under the car.
Yes it is a PITA sort of job but very doable.

Dave
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Last edited by dmorrison; 02-03-2007 at 01:19 PM.
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  #9  
Old 01-16-2005, 04:28 PM
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it's not too bad

I've done the job, and while it's PITA, I haven't found it to be too hard, and I'm a newbie. I haven't pulled turbo or manifold. I did pull the lower oil pan, because I wanted to replace the gasket there, but found that having the pan off wasn't really necessary for replacing turbo drain pipe seals. It's true that with the pan off, one can use a deep socket as a drift for nudging the lower pipe up, and that way you don't have to use locking pliers or clamp on the pipe itself, so you won't score it. However, if you do end up scoring that pipe a bit, who cares? Be careful though, that pipe is made from pretty soft metal (on my '81 300SD at least). The part that I found to be the hardest is extracing the old grommet. Mine was apparently replaced not so long ago, so it was still a pretty tight fit, and I wasn't able to pull out the lower pipe with the grommet in place (and I did try hard). I had to destroy that grommet completely by trying to pull it out with a pocket knife, and then extracting it piece by piece. If your grommet is old, it may come out easily though. One thing I did not manage to figure out is exactly where the lower o-ring should end up relative to the grommet. It looks like there a special groove inside the grommet where the o-ring should sit, but then I don't think the lower pipe could be pushed up high enough for that to happen. In any case, my drain pipe doesn't seem to leak anymore.

Before replacing the turbo drain pipe seals, make sure that the leak is not in fact coming from the air filter oil return tube.

I found this page to be particularly useful: http://engine.articles.mbz.org/diesel/seals/
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  #10  
Old 01-16-2005, 10:54 PM
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Smile New thread I just completed on this job.

W126 OM617 1985 300SD turbo drain tube gasket & seals
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/113087-w126-om617-1985-300sd-turbo-drain-tube-gasket-seals-post799062.html#post799062

Enjoy the pictures.
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  #11  
Old 01-18-2005, 03:56 PM
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At the risk of sounding like a maniac, I had good luck cutting the slip joint out and replacing it with 3/4" silicone hose, while everything was on the car.
No more leaks, and the whole works will be much easier to disassemble in the future if necessary.
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2005, 07:43 PM
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WHunter,

I couldn't tell from the photos. Is there a check valve on the bottom of the turbo oil drain where it enters the pan on the SD? If it needs replacing, is there a part#? Hopefully, a good cleaning will take care of it.

Thanks,
Sam
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2005, 07:50 PM
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Exclamation No

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Blue
WHunter,

I couldn't tell from the photos. Is there a check valve on the bottom of the turbo oil drain where it enters the pan on the SD? If it needs replacing, is there a part#? Hopefully, a good cleaning will take care of it.

Thanks,
Sam
It is a straight tube, no valve.
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2005, 08:51 PM
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Why does this thing leak in the first place?

I was looking at mine just now, the leak seems to be getting worse. It looks like the tube exits the turbo then slips inside the lower tube. The lower tube goes into the top of the oil pan with a seal around it's point of entry.

Looks like gravity would be in favor of just encouraging all that oil to keep moving down into the pan. How does it manage to find it's way out around the seal where the pipe enters the oil pan? I would imagine that pipe has its end below the top of the oil pan, and I just can't figure why the damn thing leaks!

Kevin
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  #15  
Old 01-18-2005, 10:24 PM
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Oil exits under

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCampbell
Why does this thing leak in the first place?

I was looking at mine just now, the leak seems to be getting worse. It looks like the tube exits the turbo then slips inside the lower tube. The lower tube goes into the top of the oil pan with a seal around it's point of entry.

Looks like gravity would be in favor of just encouraging all that oil to keep moving down into the pan. How does it manage to find it's way out around the seal where the pipe enters the oil pan? I would imagine that pipe has its end below the top of the oil pan, and I just can't figure why the damn thing leaks!

Kevin
very high pressure...

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