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  #31  
Old 01-24-2005, 10:51 AM
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I would think that there would be smoke (unburned fuel) puffing out the exhaust at the least, under such conditions. No smoke then it is a fuel problem. cannot wait to hear what your mechanic comes up with.


Actually It is my guess that it has to be a fuel delivery issue, as the compression/valve issues would not show up over night... or may be bad fuel???

plug the block heater in and let it heat up. may be an hour or two when it is 70 degrees outside. The started may not be spinning the motor over fast enough to get it to fire up. If (broked record here) you dont have smoke comming out the exhaust after turning the engine over for a bit, then you know there is no fuel going to the injectors.
J

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  #32  
Old 01-24-2005, 11:28 AM
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240D not starting

Guys, this is really mysterious! I know Janet's car and have driven it while and after it was purchased and it ran flawless. It quit firing up when in the fall last year the temperatures dropped from 80 degrees to about 50 daytime high.

A friend changed the glow plug relay (yes, they are series plugs) to no rescue. We tried so many times that the battery went dead on us. The the car 'sat' with no activity until Christmas time, when I gave Janet the "Xmas" present to have the red one towed to my machanic, my confidante for all my old MBZ needs and we were hoping for a quick fix to the problem.

He was in fact the one with the diagnosis of a low compression engine. I asked how he knew and he did not have a clear answer. It seemed as if he had other motives not to work on the vehicle and reading the thread of this topic, I am positive that the reason for this great car not starting is deep within the glow plug system and, perhaps, a new battery (which, as a matter of fact, I removed and tried to charge and it was NOT holding optimum charge!).

Now, I have two left hands (with all thumbs on it) and I am out of advice. I have never seen or heard of such a momumental problem as with Janet's car. Anybody in the L.A. area willing to come down and I am willing to reciprocate with a couple of imported beers and a meal ?
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  #33  
Old 01-24-2005, 03:08 PM
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First time it didn't start

In response to Ismelll, and perhaps a clue.
I noticed that the glow plug light stayed on longer and longer, so one day, I left it on just to see how long it would go. I ran in the house for something. It was only minutes. From that time on, it didn't start.

Also, yesterday, when I tried in vain to start it, I noticed that when I turned the key, the light came on, and while I am waiting for it to go out, there were lots of "science fiction" sounds, like crunching saran wrap, and little squeeks. It was very low in volume. It happened only on the first try.

We'll figure it out. It's a good car.
Thanks
Janet
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  #34  
Old 01-24-2005, 04:02 PM
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post #13.

This thread.
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  #35  
Old 01-24-2005, 08:24 PM
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Here's my thoughts: New battery, new glow plug relay, new glow plugs (or each old glow plug known-good), new fuel filters, and fresh fuel (I learned about fresh fuel the hard way...).

It should start.

Beyond that, I'd defer to the guys who know more about the mechanicals than I do.

Good luck,

- Patrick
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  #36  
Old 01-24-2005, 08:42 PM
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I've been having somewhat similar problems with my 240d. I had my friend tow it out to reno for me before he set out south to san diego and I drove it from reno to east bay CA. Before I left I was worried about it because unless it was plugged in it wouldn't start in cold weather, I posted about it a few times, but just settled on waiting till it warmed up and plugging it in. We're at 5,300 feet here in boulder

When I was in CA it would start into the 30's no problem, with maybe 3-5 seconds of cranking. Granted CA isn't as cold but some nights were into the 30's and it still started no problem with a single glow plug cycle.

At the end of break I changed the oil and filter and drove it up to yuba city and then to Las Vegas. No problems at all. The car sat 2 nights that were into the low 30's in vegas and when I went to start it, cranked and cranked and cranked and finally after I beat down the battery and jumped it, it started. My friend met me in vegas and towed the 240 up here, where now if it's been sitting for more than a day will not start without a jump, and smokes much more than normal. When it does run, the power is right where it was, and after it's warmed up it runs really well. Just lots of white smoke, not blue or black. Any help on this one?

I'm not trying to hijack this post so I can move this else where but there's lots of 240d starting questions here. Basically, I think my MB is pissed at me for taking it out of CA, it likes to be home.



For jc2124, does it crank up and sound like it's going to start but not ever kind of catch? Mine will crank and it'll sound like it's running and I'll let off and it'll just kind of fizzle out. I think I might not be getting enough fuel, or something is wrong with the fuel I had at sea level compared to what I'd need here in boulder, no idea, but I just want it to run well again. I'm sure it needs a valve job as it's been well over a year and about 8-10,000 miles, I'm scared that I'm not getting compression.

I think you should maybe plug in your car and hook up either a battery charger or jumpers so you can crank on it all day and see if it works. I dunno, I'm kind of frustrated and again I'm sorry for the hijack. Thanks.
-Nate
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  #37  
Old 01-25-2005, 12:46 AM
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Janet: 1. Pull start. Use 3rd gear. This will tell you if the engine will start and run. Dollars to donuts it will. It did before this sudden no start.
2. Clean the cable ends at the battery and the starter, and especially the ground strap at the starter. Use a baking soda and water paste and an old toothbrush if you can't find a "brass" toothbrush. Brite and tight.
3. Check the fuse for the glow plug system. If it has a relay then it has a fuse.
4. Find the back end of the glow plug system, near the front of the engine. Probably a temperature sensor there. Make sure the "cable" connection is brite and tight. This may be your problem as "the light stayed on too long". There's always a reason if a fuse goes.
5. Use a voltmeter and check for voltage at the upstream end of the first glowplug (back end of engine = #4 cylinder = first glowplug). Don't use a $5 cheapie here - the current is too high - check that the meter has as least 10megaohm impedence. You can get a decent multimeter for $20 at Sears.
6. Check back in when you're done with #5. You can fix this without the mechanic. My guess is that you had a short after the first or second plug and the extra current burned the first or second plug open, but first things first. I like to throw my money at the problem, and not at guesses.
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  #38  
Old 01-25-2005, 09:33 AM
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Cranking

Dabenz, I am going to try your way. I've been pretty sure from the beginning, that it's something simple, and ultimately something that I can do. I like taking care of my own car, so this adventure has become quite instructional. I'll let you know what happens.

I live on a hill, and have considered getting it out into the street to see if it will start with some speed on it. I can get it to move. I've moved it up my driveway by popping the clutch.

to answer Cannonball, my engine turns over in a very regular, prestarting mode, but never cranks up enough to start.
janet
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  #39  
Old 01-25-2005, 09:36 AM
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Patrick

I am getting a new battery, I have the relay and 4 supposedly good plugs. they get pulled out later today, hopefully. I think that the 2nd one is burned out and probably burned out the fuse. thanks
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  #40  
Old 01-25-2005, 10:10 AM
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as per our friend, you have an Interstate Battery in your car. This is the battery I removed some time ago and put it on my charger: it did not hold charge! Just barely into the green, enough for 3 or 4 cranks. The Battery is no good.
As to the glow plugs, change all four of them, remember, if one is bad, nothing will turn
Also, the idea of checking the fuse for the glow plug relay is excellent
Buy a MB battery
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  #41  
Old 01-25-2005, 03:35 PM
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The parts you blindly throw at a car usually go bad again, because the problem wasn't found and fixed. That gets expensive and frustrating.

Janet: I take it your car has the dash glow light that goes off when the car's ready to start, and you engage the starter with the key and not a "gorilla" pull knob? I want to make sure I'm barking up the right tree.
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  #42  
Old 01-26-2005, 12:36 PM
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gorilla pull knob

Fortunatly, I don't even know what a gorilla pull knob is. I turn the key, the light comes on, I attempt to start it.

The interesting thing is, and no one has addressed it, is that I can move the car by accelerating and releasing the clutch. It works in first and reverse, which are the only ones I have tried. I've only moved it under 20 feet each time.

Janet
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  #43  
Old 01-26-2005, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc2124
Fortunatly, I don't even know what a gorilla pull knob is. I turn the key, the light comes on, I attempt to start it.

The interesting thing is, and no one has addressed it, is that I can move the car by accelerating and releasing the clutch. It works in first and reverse, which are the only ones I have tried. I've only moved it under 20 feet each time.

Janet
A "gorilla pull knob" (I have never heard it called that before) is the strange yet entertaining ignition system on the pre w123 diesels. You pull it to close the contact switch to allow the glow plugs to heat and then give it a yank to engage the starter. It's kinda like an autofocus SLR camera. To shut it off...push it in and the fuel is cut off. People keep asking me why I am tugging on the headlight switch all the time
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  #44  
Old 01-26-2005, 12:52 PM
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gorilla pull plug

I'm very sure I don't have one.
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  #45  
Old 01-26-2005, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc2124

The interesting thing is, and no one has addressed it, is that I can move the car by accelerating and releasing the clutch. It works in first and reverse, which are the only ones I have tried. I've only moved it under 20 feet each time.
I believe that we all might be a bit confused. Can you kindly explain in more detail please. What exactly do you mean when you say that you are "accelerating and releasing the clutch"?

The engine is not running during this experiment???

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