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  #46  
Old 01-26-2005, 01:34 PM
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moving the non running car

I discovered it by accident. My driveway is on a fairly long hill, so I tried the old 'get it to roll and pop the clutch' approach. It didn't start, and the car was sitting at the bottom of the driveway. One day when I was trying to start it, I was in gear, with my foot on the clutch. I released the clutch and the car moved forward. I was able to move it far enough forward to get it out of my nieghbor's way.

The other day when the tow truck brought it back, he couldn't get it into the parking space, and you know how heavy it is to push. I got in, turned it on, cranked it up for a few seconds, put it in reverse, released the clutch, and it backed up into the space.

No, the engine isn't on. I'm not even cranking it when it happens. I'm going out right now, to move it again. I'll observe the details of the process and report back.

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  #47  
Old 01-26-2005, 02:23 PM
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In all this time, have you noticed smoke comming out of the exhaust, while cranking the engine?
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  #48  
Old 01-26-2005, 02:52 PM
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janetc
 
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moving the non running car part 2

I just moved it once again. I turned the kcy, cranked it, and while cranking it, released the clutch, which allowed me to move it a little. It almost sounded like it cranked a little harder. My heart beat for a moment, as I thought it would start.

I visited a second mechanic today. He told me to unscrew something next to the pump and the injectors and pump it. He said it should get harder and harder to pump if it's okay. If it's loose and saggy, that may be the indicator of the real problem. He also thinks it's fuel. I did check the filter, and there is diesel present. It's full.

On my way to pumping.
Later
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  #49  
Old 01-26-2005, 02:55 PM
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janetc
 
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exhause

I haven't seen any exhaust, and frankly I can't smell diesel. I haven't really looked at the exhaust, but now, as I remember those fond days when it did start, it was smoking and smelling. Hmmmm
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  #50  
Old 01-26-2005, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc2124
I just moved it once again. I turned the kcy, cranked it, and while cranking it, released the clutch, which allowed me to move it a little.
This explains the mysterious movement of the non-running 240.

When the clutch is out, the rear wheels are directly connected to the engine when the transmission is in gear. So, if you turn the engine with the starter (or by a big breaker bar), the rear wheels have to turn.

I once saved my ass in the middle of a three lane expressway. I had a Mercury Capri with a 2 litre Opel engine in it. The timing belt let go (no chain) and the vehicle came to an abrupt stop in gear, before I could move it out of the lane.

I quickly put in in first gear, turned the key to start, and held it there while I drove the vehicle off the highway at 3 mph or so. I was extremely lucky that traffic in the right lane slowed down and let me do it. Could have been plastered.

Thank goodness that it was a free wheeling engine. A new belt and careful setting of timing on the cam and the distributor and she was running again.
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  #51  
Old 01-26-2005, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc2124
On my way to pumping.
How about you forget about that pumping and take the service truck and try and pull start it, as Dabenz has suggested?

Put it in third gear, put the clutch in, turn the key to the #2 position, press down 1/4 of the way on the accelerator, and pull it with the service truck up to 30 mph or so. Let the clutch out and continue to have the service truck pull it. If it is a glow plug issue, the very high rotational speed of the engine will overcome the lack of glow plugs and it should start and run.

Be careful that you don't drive right into the service truck!

If it does run, you definitely have a glow plug problem.
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  #52  
Old 01-26-2005, 03:10 PM
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mystery starting

Is this a good sign regarding the engine itself?
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  #53  
Old 01-26-2005, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc2124
Is this a good sign regarding the engine itself?
If the engine starts and runs, you bet it's a good sign!!!
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  #54  
Old 01-26-2005, 05:06 PM
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Seems to me that the absence of exhaust smoke means there is No fuel getting to the injectors! Even when trying to start the farm tractor at 20 degrees, it will spin over for about 8-10 seconds and then you will see a white smoke pouring out the exhaust pipe. It will do that even before it begins to 'catch' or sputter, There is just more of it once the motor starts to run.
If there is no white/grey smoke comming from the exhaust, there is no fuel going into the engine. Thus the Idea of priming the fuel filter with the hand pump.
I had a real challanging air bubble in a fuel line once,between the tank and fuel pump. was pulling my hair out trying to get fuel, but was getting a lot of nothing... It may take some playing with. if there is a air bubble or may be a vaccume in the fuel tank??? Yeah that makes no sense...but why not try and take the fuel cap off and see if that released a vacume.. then try the hand pump again...Or colapsed fuel line...?

when you said you checked the filter for fuel, did you take it off? or are you speaking of the plastic, see-through filter that is in the fuel line? there is a second spin on filter that the fuel goes through after it gets pumped through the hand pump that you have tryed to pump. Did the pump get more difficult to push after a bit? seems to me they need to be unscrewed to unlock, and then once you have devoloped pressure in the system it needs to be tightened back down. If it takes a while to get any pressure or not much is changing, I would suggest loosening the bleeder Bolt, and seeing if you can pump a bit of fuel through the primer pump to the filter. I say that because if there is air in the primer pump, it may not pull the fuel out of the tank very well, and you might find it more productive to have the bleeder screw open.

May be all this is stuff you have allready tried, but I did not see it in the previous posts.

If you have determined that there is fuel going to the injection pump, from the primer hand pump, then we know that there is progress being made. Then you may try to start the car. Dont bother waiting for the glow plugs, just spin it over and look for smoke. Still no smoke, I will guess it is gonna get even more fun to figure this delema out.

I guess that is more than .02 cents... Sorry
Jason
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  #55  
Old 01-26-2005, 06:57 PM
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pumping

I went out and pumped the hand filter. It never got any easier or harder, and there wasn't much pressure against my pumping. It was pretty easy, but not weak. After a few minutes, I tried starting it again, and it didn't start. I have a feeling we're getting closer. No smoke, no smell and no start.

I'll try the other suggestions and keep you posted.
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  #56  
Old 01-26-2005, 07:38 PM
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Sounds like no fuel.

So you are making progress. You MIGHT be able to rule out glow plugs as the problem... but back to the fuel primer pump. Although mine leaks quite a bit, it does get more difficult to pump after 5-6 strokes. (that is with the bleeder screw on the spin on fuel filter open) some have said that it is unnessary to open the bleeder screw to get the system to purge the air, I like being able to see the fuel come out of the bleeder screw then I know it is a job well done.
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  #57  
Old 01-26-2005, 11:05 PM
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Hmmm

Starter cranking to slow.
Speed should be high or it will not start.
Speed = compression = friction heating = faster is better.
With a manual transmission you can push start it.

Never crank more than 20 seconds, and after each crank wait 30 seconds.
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  #58  
Old 01-27-2005, 03:37 PM
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janetc
 
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I may have found it

Hi
We've eliminated the glow plug possiblilty and now it's the fuel system.
Removing the injector pipe from the engine and turning it over, there is no fuel. Pumping and priming indicates there is fuel available.

the picture is of a piece that has two connections, but nothing is connected. what is it and what should go there. There are two loose, non identical pieces coming out from the dashboard drivers side. I have a pic of them as well. One could connect to one side of this piece, the other one has some metal, copper or brass end on it.

Is there a way to post a second picture?
We're getting there.
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  #59  
Old 01-27-2005, 05:26 PM
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cannot tell by the picture...

Where is the fuel available? at the primer pump, or post fuel filter?

I was just looking at the DIY 123 + 126 home page. (a sticky thread at the top of the diesel discussion list) I do not know how to run a computer well enough to bring a link to this post. Any way, at the bottom of that long and imformative list there is a link to a online factory manual. If you make it that far with these poor directions, check on 07-140 venting of injection system.
May be some one else can do better than I have on the above.

What I understand from reading the manual is this: there is a bleeder screw on the fuel filter. You have allready found that and seen fuel come out of it when pumping the primer pump correct??

If so, then I see there is a bleeder screw on the injection pump as well (on some of the IP's not all) The other injection pumps have a venting valve of some type which changes in noise as the fuel reaches the valve. If you have gotten to the point where you have fuel at that bleeder screw/valve, then you know you have fuel IN the injection pump. That is another good mile tone.

then I believe my next step would be to crack all the injector lines, (after you have verified there is fuel in the injection pump) and turn the engine over by key. Having some one check for fuel comming out of the injection lines.. If so, tighten the lines and try and give it a start...

*best to have a catch pan under the engine, as it will make a mess when the injector lines are open. All of which is ok as you want to get all the air out of the lines/system before tightening them.
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  #60  
Old 01-27-2005, 05:51 PM
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injector lines

We have established that there is fuel, but it is not coming out of the injector line. when it is detached, and the engine is on, nothing comes out.

Thanks for the other info. I'll try to find it.

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