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  #1  
Old 01-27-2005, 07:20 PM
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Location: Chilliwack , B.C. , Canada
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IP Troubles

Hi Folks , long story , I was changing the timing chain on a 617 and lost tension on the chain requiring re-timing of the cam to TDC . I have the cam timed now but in trying to check the IP timing the pump is acting peculiarly The fuel line from the pump to the #1 injector is removed , the delivery valve removed ( spring taken out ) and delivery valve replaced . This should allow me to see when the fuel begins welling up in the delivery valve ( should be approx. 23-25 BTDC ) but when I pump up the pressure with the primer pump fuel squirts out of the delivery valve in a stream . Also is it possible that I'm wasting my time and the relationship between the crank and IP were undisturbed by my screw-up ?
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  #2  
Old 01-27-2005, 08:36 PM
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.transitguy

We did the same thing on my daughters "78" 240D. I took the IP out and 1) made sure the mark was lined up, 2) the cam mark was lined up with the 23 degree mark on the crank. Turn it over a few times by hand then time it by what ever method you use. I don't remember using the hand primer. Anyway lots of folks have made that mistake, I remember "bunching" up the chain around the cam sprocket to get it positioned right. Have you done all these lining up of marks and are your in the IP timing part now?
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1985 Euro 300TD 5 spd 220K
1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 130K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
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  #3  
Old 01-27-2005, 08:45 PM
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Yes the cam is timed correctly at TDC and I have taken time off from swearing at the car to pickup a front seal , after I install the seal I was going to give the IP timing another try then if not successful I would go on to some other chores on the car and I can always haul it on the car trailer to someone who knows what they are doing . This is my first Mercedes although I have had a diesel VW before and a Dodge Cummins now . I'm familar with large 14 litre Cummins as well but the 300 TD is alot different .
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Old 01-28-2005, 12:28 AM
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transitguy


If you lined up the cam and crank marks at TDC then rotate the eng to the 23 degree mark then pull the IP and make sure the marks on the toothed gear are lined up, you should be close. I haven't worked on the 617 but I think at that point you would be ready to time it. There is lots in the archives and if you've made it this far you should be able to do it. Check using "bubble method " or "drip method" I like the bubble method, no muss, no fuss,
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1985 Euro 300TD 5 spd 220K
1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 130K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
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  #5  
Old 01-28-2005, 06:57 AM
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It is really hard to screw up the crank-IP relationship when replacing the chain, but it can be done. If fuel is free flowing move the crank a little further until the flow just stops. That is the point where the lift pump stops filling and injection would start. If it is just a few degrees of crank rotation more, you are just a little retarded. Adjust accordingly
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  #6  
Old 01-28-2005, 07:52 AM
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Did you remember to set the throttle linkage at the full load position before you tried to time it?
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  #7  
Old 01-28-2005, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transitguy
Hi Folks , long story , I was changing the timing chain on a 617 and lost tension on the chain requiring re-timing of the cam to TDC . I have the cam timed now but in trying to check the IP timing the pump is acting peculiarly The fuel line from the pump to the #1 injector is removed , the delivery valve removed ( spring taken out ) and delivery valve replaced . This should allow me to see when the fuel begins welling up in the delivery valve ( should be approx. 23-25 BTDC ) but when I pump up the pressure with the primer pump fuel squirts out of the delivery valve in a stream . Yeah, I know it seems crazy, but that's just what it does. Keep the faith, keep turning slowly, when you get to the drip point it's very noticable and pretty cool I thought - and very repeatable. After you see it, rotate nearly 2 full turns and see it again. You really can nail it to 1 degree. Also is it possible that I'm wasting my time and the relationship between the crank and IP were undisturbed by my screw-up ?
If you change the front seal, make really sure you mark the parts first, cause it's easy to get something 180 off. Lot of good info to search on here. Good luck
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Old 01-28-2005, 03:19 PM
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Continued trials & tribulations

Regarding the injection timing , no I didn't set the throttle to full load . I think I will try the bubble method next though . Re the front seal , I did mark the balancer and crank and in installing the seal, the bugger deformed so badly going over the spacer that I have to get in a new seal . Here in the Fraser Valley a Mercedes is a foreign creature and it usually takes a day to get a part in . I have ordered a new spacer so I can slide the greased up seal over the spare spacer first then slide the spacer onto the crank to guide it . Unfortunately today is my Monday and , as I work 10 hr shifts with a 2/12 hr commute daily , I don't accomplish much until my days off .
Thankyou for all of your help . My beloved spouse finds MB ownership takes me away from too many of my farm chores as well .
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  #9  
Old 01-28-2005, 03:52 PM
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transitguy

I don't get many parts local here either.

One other thing...make sure the vacuum line is unplugged from the shut down switch on the IP before you try timing it. I have a write up on the bubble method some place, let me know if you haven't run across it in your search.
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1985 Euro 300TD 5 spd 220K
1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 130K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
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  #10  
Old 02-02-2005, 02:51 AM
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Continued 617 woes

Front seal is in , balancer and pulley on , new water pump in , injection timing checked ; seems to be timed at 21 degrees BTDC , I will adjust the pump . Current dilemna : I removed the rocker arm assemblies to re-time the cam and the back set of three won't reinstall . I tightened up the valve adjustment to enable the rockers to slide in but they still are reluctant . How much force is it safe to use ? or is there any other method that anyone can suggest ? Thanks .
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  #11  
Old 02-02-2005, 11:11 AM
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transitguy

Good show, sounds like your almost there.
As to the rockers, they can be a bugger to get seated on those alignment pins. Seems I had to slack off the valve adjusters till they "stand up" enough to go down on the pins. Its been a while but I'll be back into it soon as I just bought a 240 with a badly "knocking " engine. Hope this helps, I do remember fiddling around getting those rockers installed.
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1985 Euro 300TD 5 spd 220K
1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 130K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
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  #12  
Old 02-02-2005, 11:38 AM
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If you lost tension at the cam only, there is no need to retime the IP. Only if the chain skips teeth between the IP gear and the crank sprocket would you need to retime. That's where the integrity need to remain...

I got the rocker arms on without slacking off on any of the valves. If you rotate the crank by hand, you can get it so that each set of rocker arms can slide in under the cam.
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