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  #1  
Old 02-17-2005, 05:50 PM
d.delano's Avatar
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question about turbo delegation

what was the determining factor which 123s got the KKK or the Garrett? I was at a yard yesterday and the '85 had a KKK on it (wastegate facing fender)
my '85 has the Garrett with the hard to adjust wastegate
why? if I got this turbo, could I rebuild it and use it for my car and what other parts would be necessary for this(manif gasket, seals, brackets, adapters, bolts, nuts, things for me to poop onsorry)
thanks
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  #2  
Old 02-17-2005, 06:03 PM
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You got me........both my W116's and my 83 300D have garrets.
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1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
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  #3  
Old 02-17-2005, 06:10 PM
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I thought the KKK's showed up sometime in 84...

Is one more desireable than the other (aside from the accesibility of the adjustment screw)?
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1980 500SE/AMG Euro
1981 500SEL Euro
1982 380SEL
1983 300TD
1983 500SEC/AMG Euro
1984 500SEC
1984 300TD Euro
1986 190E 2.3-16
1986 190E 2.3
1987 300D
1997 C36 AMG
2003 C320T 4matic

past: 1969 280SE 4.5 | 1978 240D | 1978 300D | 1981 300SD | 1981 300SD | 1982 300CD | 1983 300CD | 1983 300SD | 1983 380SEC | 1984 300D | 1984 300D | 1984 300TD | 1984 500SEL | 1984 300SD | 1985 300D | 1986 300E | 1986 560SEL | 1986 560SEL/Carat | 1987 560SEC | 1991 300D 2.5 | 2006 R350
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  #4  
Old 02-17-2005, 06:23 PM
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The two turbos perform the same, other than the wastegate adj device
For those who aren;t aware, the KKK has an externally adjustable wastegate pressure setting. Garrets and AirResearch use a spring adjsutment that is located under a metal "cup" with the end cover attached with a C-clip. Dr. Bert's recent post on how to change the Garrett boost pressure setting (opening point) is very thorough and well written.
see: Turbocharger Wastegate Adjustment:
I am planning to attempt that procedure when the weather gets better.
I been looking for a used KKK. Better grab that one, ddelano!
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  #5  
Old 02-17-2005, 06:24 PM
Brandon314159
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I believe I read on here somewhere that the KKK starts making boost at a lower RPM and makes maximum boost before the Garret.
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  #6  
Old 02-17-2005, 06:29 PM
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possibly the impeller ratios are slightly different. A turbo designed for quicker spooling usually sacrifices top end boost or something. Its a tight rope act, balancing one thing over the other.
BTW I found a Volvo website that has a deluge of items related to Turbos. I suppose they have a following that tweaks with them on gassers (and diesels):
http://www.swedishbricks.net/700900FAQ/Engine-Turbo1.html
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  #7  
Old 02-17-2005, 06:34 PM
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oh don't tell me that. I have a KKK off the car about to be put back on the engine going in the 83 300CD to be sold... I have a garret on my 82... do I really want to switch them out?
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1980 500SE/AMG Euro
1981 500SEL Euro
1982 380SEL
1983 300TD
1983 500SEC/AMG Euro
1984 500SEC
1984 300TD Euro
1986 190E 2.3-16
1986 190E 2.3
1987 300D
1997 C36 AMG
2003 C320T 4matic

past: 1969 280SE 4.5 | 1978 240D | 1978 300D | 1981 300SD | 1981 300SD | 1982 300CD | 1983 300CD | 1983 300SD | 1983 380SEC | 1984 300D | 1984 300D | 1984 300TD | 1984 500SEL | 1984 300SD | 1985 300D | 1986 300E | 1986 560SEL | 1986 560SEL/Carat | 1987 560SEC | 1991 300D 2.5 | 2006 R350
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  #8  
Old 02-17-2005, 06:50 PM
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I don't know what to say, except that I would use the one in the best condition (bearings not loose, blades straight, etc)
I did find a link to the various makes used:
MERCEDES BENZ
MODEL YEAR ENGINE DESCRIPTION TURBOCHARGER
300 SERIES
1978-84 3.0L I5 120HP @ 4350 TA0301
1978-84 3.0L 3.0L I5 KKK VERSION K26
1985 3.0L I6 TA0310
1985-87 3.0L I6 KKK VERSION K24
1987 3.0L I6 TB0369
1990-94 3.5L I6 TB0369
source: http://www.hardlineturbo.com/APPLICATION%20TURBO.htm

Incidentally hardlineturbo sells kits, I believe the Garret TA series runs $90 for a kit, as always check with the web site for more details.
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  #9  
Old 02-17-2005, 07:26 PM
ForcedInduction
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I have used both the KKK and Garrett on my 300TD (Currently have the KKK installed). I much prefer the KKK due to the lower RPM it starts to make boost. "A turbo designed for quicker spooling usually sacrifices top end boost or something." This is exactly what the KKK does. It blazes to 9 psi, from 10-13.5psi my engine must be above 3000rpm at full pedal and it takes forever. At least on my example, the wastegate is very sensitive. In the 9-14psi range 1/8 turn makes +/-0.5psi difference.

For "performance" The garrett with its better high end is the way to go. For "normal" around town and back, the KKK makes the trip more "sporty."
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  #10  
Old 02-17-2005, 08:28 PM
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My 99 has a Ku Klux Klan turbo
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  #11  
Old 02-17-2005, 10:08 PM
ForcedInduction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim
My 99 has a Ku Klux Klan turbo
PLEASE, don't relate our wonderful marvels of engineering to a bunch of *(Unprintable in this forum)*. The Kühnle, Kopp & Kausch company and The "KKK" are only coincidence.
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  #12  
Old 02-17-2005, 10:22 PM
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haha, ive always wondered what it stood for.

Im browsing that link- i need the large seal for the compressor side of the kkk turbo...
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1980 500SE/AMG Euro
1981 500SEL Euro
1982 380SEL
1983 300TD
1983 500SEC/AMG Euro
1984 500SEC
1984 300TD Euro
1986 190E 2.3-16
1986 190E 2.3
1987 300D
1997 C36 AMG
2003 C320T 4matic

past: 1969 280SE 4.5 | 1978 240D | 1978 300D | 1981 300SD | 1981 300SD | 1982 300CD | 1983 300CD | 1983 300SD | 1983 380SEC | 1984 300D | 1984 300D | 1984 300TD | 1984 500SEL | 1984 300SD | 1985 300D | 1986 300E | 1986 560SEL | 1986 560SEL/Carat | 1987 560SEC | 1991 300D 2.5 | 2006 R350
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  #13  
Old 02-18-2005, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 82-300td
PLEASE, don't relate our wonderful marvels of engineering to a bunch of *(Unprintable in this forum)*. The Kühnle, Kopp & Kausch company and The "KKK" are only coincidence.
Damn! Now you tell me. I thought that by buying that car, I have automatic membership in the KKK. Now what do I do with my white robe??

I knew I should have got a white car instead of a black one. Put a pointy hat with eye cutouts and I would be in business.
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
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  #14  
Old 02-18-2005, 12:51 AM
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Question

[QUOTE=dieseldiehard]
MERCEDES BENZ
MODEL YEAR ENGINE DESCRIPTION TURBOCHARGER
300 SERIES
1978-84 3.0L I5 120HP @ 4350 TA0301
1978-84 3.0L 3.0L I5 KKK VERSION K26
1985 3.0L I6 TA0310
1985-87 3.0L I6 KKK VERSION K24
1987 3.0L I6 TB0369
1990-94 3.5L I6 TB0369
source: http://www.hardlineturbo.com/APPLICATION%20TURBO.htm

[QUOTE]
I'm concerned, because my 1985 300CD has only 5 cylinders. I haven't yet been able to find the wastegate adjustment, under all that CA emissions crap.
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  #15  
Old 02-18-2005, 08:24 AM
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Garrett Airesearch is an American company that did all the pioneering work in the 70's for MB to develop a new turbocharger for a small diesel with a wide powerband.
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