Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 03-04-2005, 04:50 PM
phidauex's Avatar
BioDiesel Hopeful
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrg
It would be an OPEC nightmare (unless of course we all decide we need to double our horsepower as opposed to our fuel efficency - how about a 1,000 hp 600SL?)
Thats exactly what would happen. In fact, thats exactly what DOES happen. With all the engine advancements we make, all we decide to do is make bigger and faster cars with it. Thats why average fuel mileage of passenger vehicles sold each year has done nothing but go DOWN. It was the highest its ever been in 1987 (!), and last year was the lowest it had been in 8 years. If we all had engines that could get 100MPG, we'd just make cars so powerful that it took 10 of them to move it, giving us our good old 10mpg again. Of course, they'd be more fun to drive.

peace,
sam
__________________
"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-04-2005, 07:27 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,306
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrg
how about a 1,000 hp 600SL?)
Actually I am sure their are a few running around with the regular old bi turbo engine.

I think these stories have a way of growing as they get passed along. Cool tech though.
__________________
2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ
2007 Tiara 3200

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-07-2005, 04:27 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 79
Not everything is as it appears

Although this all looks nice, with the exceptions of the miss spellings, some of it definitely comes off as misleading by not mentioning important facts. Although the author of Ceramic Engine mentions that it takes more time and money for the working of Si2, he or she fails to mention that the refining process to bring this material to a purity that would have the characteristic in which he or she describes would cost a vast amount more than bringing cast iron or aluminum into the purity described (Wilworth). So in a perfect world where we could find Si2 of a nearly pure composition it would axially cost less than working metal of the same nearly perfect purity, but in the real world this is not so. Although the energy to machine a ceramic engine would be less than that of a traditional metal engine with the machinery already acquired, the machinery to machine these engines very greatly in price. Diamond is not cheap. Along with the cost of diamond and various other tools the cost of machinery for the creation of the ceramic engine is vastly more. So in a perfect world where materials come pure and all the tools are free the statistic for a Ceramic engine being cheaper to produce stands true (Ceramic Engine). Further more, in this perfect world the machining time would also be less for a ceramic engine, three minutes, than that of an iron or aluminum engine. So is a ceramic engine superior to that of an aluminum or cast iron engine if money is no object?
The answer to this is not simple, like would be expected when comparing any engine to another. A diesel is more efficient and more reliable than that of a gas engine but it is slower. So just as any engine they all have their downfalls. A ceramic engine downfall is that it very brittle (Whitworth) especially as it gets hotter. If this brittleness results in a crack like it very well may, the crack will spread and catastrophic engine failure will result. In a traditional cast iron or aluminum engine failure tends to be much less dramatic and is usually does not destroy the entire engine unless gone unchanged. Formula one engines were tested with various ceramic components and catastrophic engine failures often resulted due to the rough ride of the car and the brittleness of ceramics.


Works Cited
Ceramic Engine. 22-07-2003. Geocities. February 23 2005.
Ceramic engine the next step. Geocities. February 23 2005.
REPLACING THE GAS COMBUSTION ENGINE ME. University of Colorado. February 23 2005.
Whitworth, Ben. “Why car parts won't go to pot.” Professional Engineering 22 Jul. 1998: 30

I am writing a report on it and I still have a lot more negatives such as these engines do not handle startup and shutdown well at all: Shutdown often ends in destruction of the engine.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-07-2005, 04:28 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 79
Oh and by the way Si2 is a ceramic.

I am in a ceramic course in college right now.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-07-2005, 04:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 79
Screwed up math and heat issues

That 150% increase is in terms of weight… The ¼ fuel requirement is only at idle… and ceramics hold in heat extremely well which is responsible for little fuel consumption at idle and the fact it can idle lower … We went to a plant and you could touch the side of the ceramic furnace with your hand, and it was red hot inside.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-07-2005, 04:39 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 79
Oh and 20,000 hours is not impressive

Hell a gasoline engine will run that long in these babied conditions... This motor is sitting there without strain and kept at the optimum area for longevity... It can’t be compared to real life... Hell do to the characteristics of ceramics this engine wouldn’t stand a chance in a vehicle... I had hoped it could but it cannot.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-07-2005, 04:51 PM
MBDFahrer's Avatar
Senior Member, Senioritis
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krawsczyn
We went to a plant and you could touch the side of the ceramic furnace with your hand, and it was red hot inside.
Isn't the bottom of the space shuttles covered with ceramic tiles? Which keeps it from burning up upon reentry? And since a/some ceramic tile(s) were knocked off on Space Shuttle Columbia, that's what resulted in the shuttle burning up on reentry?
__________________
Jason

00 Subaru Legacy (fun wagon)
96 Nissan Sentra (disavowed)
82 300SD (garage queen, will run again hopefully)
87 300DT (Gone: 10/15/2010)
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-07-2005, 05:29 PM
Old300D's Avatar
Biodiesel Fiend
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krawsczyn
I am in a ceramic course in college right now.
Explain how silicon is a ceramic.

Quote:
Ceramic
inorganic, nonmetalllic products for which the interatomic bonding is predominantly ionic.
Definition link

Silicon is a semiconductor, and as I know it, it is quite soft and doesn't like temperatures much over 200-300 C. There are ceramics made from Silicon Nitride and Silicon Carbide, both of which form ionic bonds. How does Si2 form ionic bonds?

The only reason I am bringing this up and questioning it is because the source article for a "ceramic engine" is lacking in details such as material, and exaggerates many points. Typical "snake oil" pitch.
__________________
'83 240D with 617.952 and 2.88
'01 VW Beetle TDI
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD
'89 Toyota 4x4, needs 2L-T
'78 280Z with L28ET - 12.86@110
Oil Burner Kartel #35

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oD/bioclip.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-07-2005, 05:42 PM
phidauex's Avatar
BioDiesel Hopeful
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 806
Elemental silicon can take on the same crystalline structures as Carbon (since they are in the same family). That means graphite-like structures up through diamond-like structures. Typically in semiconductor form the Si has been doped with boron or other materials to enhance its conductivity, and break up the crystalline structure.

Since diamond is technically a type of ceramic material, a cubic crystalline Si structure would also be a ceramic.

In crystalline structures like this the bonding isn't ionic, its covalent, and that can include as many atoms as necessary.

Now, I'm not saying thats the material that webpage is talking about, just musing about ceramics and crystalline patterns and whatnot.

peace,
Sam

PS Kyocera has some very nice ceramic knives. They are bright white, incredibly sharp, hold their edge forever, and are light as feathers. I've tried a few out and was amazed. However... One drop, and they shatter like glass..
__________________
"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-07-2005, 05:47 PM
Old300D's Avatar
Biodiesel Fiend
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by phidauex
Elemental silicon can take on the same crystalline structures as Carbon (since they are in the same family). That means graphite-like structures up through diamond-like structures. Typically in semiconductor form the Si has been doped with boron or other materials to enhance its conductivity, and break up the crystalline structure.

Since diamond is technically a type of ceramic material, a cubic crystalline Si structure would also be a ceramic.

In crystalline structures like this the bonding isn't ionic, its covalent, and that can include as many atoms as necessary.

Now, I'm not saying thats the material that webpage is talking about, just musing about ceramics and crystalline patterns and whatnot.

peace,
Sam

PS Kyocera has some very nice ceramic knives. They are bright white, incredibly sharp, hold their edge forever, and are light as feathers. I've tried a few out and was amazed. However... One drop, and they shatter like glass..
Thanks, that's interesting. I'll bet crystalline silicon is a real biatch to machine, and I'm sure it's just as brittle as alumina or zirconia. I've got a set of scissors with alumina ceramic edges, they sure cut nicely.
__________________
'83 240D with 617.952 and 2.88
'01 VW Beetle TDI
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD
'89 Toyota 4x4, needs 2L-T
'78 280Z with L28ET - 12.86@110
Oil Burner Kartel #35

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oD/bioclip.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-07-2005, 08:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 325
Here's more .. UK ceramic rotary engine ..

http://www.ultrahardmaterials.co.uk/ceramic_rotary_engine.htm

Triff ..
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-08-2005, 10:09 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 65
wow
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Have u seen the Mercedes comercials where this benz has a million and change miles?? benz-vettes Diesel Discussion 16 04-09-2004 08:54 AM
1 year and 13,768 miles later Daimler300CD Diesel Discussion 7 11-22-2003 05:02 PM
Flexible Service System - How Many Miles Are You Getting sunedog Tech Help 5 11-21-2003 08:14 AM
Any W124 (E420) Horror Stories? rmasteller Featured Cars 55 12-11-2002 08:27 PM
Pickup Truck Records One Million Miles on Pennzoil® Motor Oil loubapache Tech Help 27 01-31-2002 11:49 AM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page