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  #1  
Old 03-16-2005, 06:00 PM
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non turbo diesel question

I'm waiting to get a price on a 79' 300td. I've driven a turbo diesel and wasn't impressed untill the turbo kicked in. This wagon is a non turbo and I was wondering if they're as slow as the turbo diesel before the turbo kicks in.
What would be involved in putting a turbo on a non-turbo motor. I've got a complete turbo setup off of a same year 300sd.
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  #2  
Old 03-16-2005, 06:25 PM
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Am still pretty new on this site but my understanding is you cannot put a tubo on a mercedes non tubo block. Will list differences I have picked up on this site. Tougher crank, forged pistons, oil spray cooling of crown of pistons by oil jet and probably more on turbo engine. The normally aspirated engine has none of these features apparently. Cannot forget has a different injection pump as well to allow fuel enrichment under load plus possible different calibration of injectors. Better to find a good used turbo engine probably if you want the performance. I have not driven a turbo 300d only natural aspired versions up to this point but the non turbo is good in low speed traffic people mention. Wonder if that comment is simular to the ones about my 240d being at it's best when parked?
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  #3  
Old 03-16-2005, 06:50 PM
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If you want a car that sprints from stoplight to stoplight and cruises at 80+ mph you will not be happy with the NA diesel 300. Power comes with RPM, it takes a different driving style. This is NOT a performance oriented car.

Any way that you cut it you are talking about a car that is over a quarter of a century old and if you are not equipped to deal with that you will not be happy. People sell cars when they are four years old because they are old cars.

Modifying a car for performance is an expensive and time consuming proposition. Keeping a 25 year old car serviceable is an expensive and time consuming proposition. If you want to do both and don't have deep pockets and plenty of spare time you are probably not on the right track.
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Old 03-16-2005, 09:22 PM
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A non turbo will cruise perfectly fine at 80+ mph, for "faster" acceleration you have to use the gears. If I drive to San Diego my speed is most of the time around 80 +mph, no problem what so ever.

It's fun driving, you have to be much more alert and anticipate what other drivers are going to do in front of you. I'm getting pretty good at it, I know what other drivers are going to do, before they really do it; California drivers are very predictable, I have to say
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  #5  
Old 03-16-2005, 10:01 PM
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None of us bought any of our cars cause they were fast. Turbo models are faster top end, but my wife's minivan would still blow their doors off. It's funny how many threads we get on speed. These cars are adequate, and you can't beat the klackity klackin' they do. They are heavy with low horsepower, but they are tremendously fun for some reason. If you want more top end you can always find a different rear end. My NA wagon has a 346, and at 80 it would be screamin'.
Get it, wagons are cool. And you will then have a whole lot more to worry about than how fast it is.
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  #6  
Old 03-16-2005, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorn
A non turbo will cruise perfectly fine at 80+ mph, for "faster" acceleration you have to use the gears. If I drive to San Diego my speed is most of the time around 80 +mph, no problem what so ever.

It's fun driving, you have to be much more alert and anticipate what other drivers are going to do in front of you. I'm getting pretty good at it, I know what other drivers are going to do, before they really do it; California drivers are very predictable, I have to say
Yeah my experience is similar. Car will cruise all day at 80mph without the pedal floored. The car moves right off the line and I don't think twice about pulling into traffic. But then again I'm an ex-Boston driver....
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  #7  
Old 03-16-2005, 10:19 PM
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I'm begining to think my car must be the fastest 300D (up to 1985) around by most of the posts I see. It accelerates as good as most non-diesel vehicles I've driven, has no lag before the turbo makes boost..... it wasn't like that when I first got it but with proper tweaking it's great. Back to topic, I don't think I'd want to drive a wagon anywhere with much traffic with only 85-90hp. Your best bet would be to swap a turbo TD engine in if the rest of the car is in great shape.... or find one that's already turbo.
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  #8  
Old 03-16-2005, 10:28 PM
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I've got two wagons- one turbo and one non turbo. Both are great and I prefer neither over the other.
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  #9  
Old 03-16-2005, 10:32 PM
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I'm not looking for a sportscar acceleration. The turbo diesel I drove felt like it wasn't going to make it across the intersection untill the turbo kicked in. If I could only expect that untill crusing speed I think I would keep looking for a different car.
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  #10  
Old 03-17-2005, 09:22 AM
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You can put an aftermarket (or stock) turbo onto a NA 300D. Many people have done it. The problems are fairly obvious -
higher stresses may lead to crank problems - do not go overboard on boost pressures or fuelling increases.
High EGTs may cause piston melting issues
etc.

It then depends on how you drive the converted vehicle. Treat it like a sports car and it will have heart failure - sooner or later - probably much sooner!

Treat it well, and it should continue to give you excellent long service.

I would consider an EGT gauge mandatory on a conversion of this nature.

Tony
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  #11  
Old 03-17-2005, 09:32 AM
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The only way to know if you'll like it is to drive it for yourself. My normally aspirated 300D is perfectly fine and I don't mind driving it a bit.
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2005, 09:36 AM
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My non turbo 300D ('76- very old) feels like a real performer in city driving. I think the 0-30 MPH time would be just as good as almost anything on the road. However, 0-60 is a different kettle of fish. Having the almost 2 ton body shaped like a concrete block may be a major performance factor when trying to accelerate at highway speed. However, as many have said, it is adequate for normal driving. The "fun" part of Diesel performance is in city driving however, and in that case, my preference would definately be non turbo.

Dave M.
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  #13  
Old 03-17-2005, 10:06 AM
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79 300TD vs 84 300D

I've got both and at least on my cars I can say that the 79TD seems a bit more lively from a dead start. I believe that the gear ratio on the non turbo is a little lower. Plus, it isn't trying to breath through a non or slow spinning turbo at low RPM.

Also, the wheels and tires are narrower on the 79. This makes the wagon feel much lighter, with less low speed steering effort. The 84 feels much heaver in comparison, but only until it gets rolling (a little ALDA twist really helped out there. I thought about getting my son to line both cars up with me for a little drag race. I'm betting that the wagon jumps off the line quicker, of course the turbo would blow its doors off as the turbo spools up.

What I noticed with the 79 wagon is that if the trans is not down shifting quickly, it makes a big difference in performance. After I swapped out the kick down switch it made a big difference.

Bottom line, I don't think the 79 is a luggard at all, in some ways, I enjoy driving it more than the turbo sedan. I've got alloy wheels and tires on an 80 parts car that I am considering putting on the wagon, but that would definately change the light steering feel, so I don't know.
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2005, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilspot
I'm not looking for a sportscar acceleration. The turbo diesel I drove felt like it wasn't going to make it across the intersection untill the turbo kicked in. If I could only expect that untill crusing speed I think I would keep looking for a different car.
Some ALDA diddling is in order.

Off the line, both my 617 turbodiesels ***** and git. They used to be sluggards up to 2k and then have that distinctive turbo spool surge at 2300-2500 rpm but I fixed it with the ALDA...now they pull perfectly well off-idle. I haven't checked the boost on the 300D yet but I know for a fact that the TD makes boost much earlier now.

The 603 in my SDL needs the same help. Pulls fairly well but you can really tell when the boost builds up. An ALDA tweak and some other stuff needs to be done to it.
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Old 03-17-2005, 11:07 AM
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I can't belive no one mentioned the fact that the N/A he drove may have needed a valve adjustment or something.
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