idle problem 1998 e300 td please help
 

hello everyone, I am the new kid on the block with the 1998 e300 td, great car except this idle problem that I had since I've got it. In the morning it starts easy but it shakes for about 30-50 seconds and it smokes a little bit (white smoke). It is fine after that until it warms up all the way to the normal temperature. After that if I put it in Park or Neutral it starts shaking again. Now the interesting part is that the shaking stops if I turn on the head-lights or the A/C. I have changed the filters, I ran two cans of Diesel Purge and I even replaced the lowest clear plastic fuel line with O-rings and everything because I saw air bubbles running through it under acceleration. Still the same. I took it to the mechanic, he hooked it up to the diagnostic machine and there is no codes ,he is suspecting that the EGR valve may be stuck or the timming. I have search the forum regarding this but no luck. If anyone can help me with this I would appreciate it. I am down in Atlanta ,GA and my name is Joe. Tanx again.

'98 e300 turbodiesel 118k

I was just about to post a similar question when I saw your post.

My car starts quickly and without smoke. When in Neutral or Park it has either a regular rhythmic miss or sometimes an irregular miss which makes the whole car shake. This can happen, but infrequently, when the car is in Drive while waiting for a traffic light to change. It also seems to be triggered if the vent system is on and I press the EC button (economy mode fan: is on but not the AC compressor). I haven't checked to see if it correlates with the headlights. It also seems to get worse with deceleration.

Yesterday the "check engine light check electronics" message came on. Mechchanic checked the code and said it needed a mass air sensor. That was repalced but the problem persists.

PO had the new fuel lines (not sure if all of them) and O rings installed. I have tried to look for air bubbles but I am not sure where to look and haven't seen any even with the laser pointer.

I did the lubro moly diesel purge (thanks again crmont) x2 with no improvement.

Prefuel and fuel filter changed 4k miles ago.

Any suggestions?

we may want to check if the EGR is stuck, I'll probably do it this weekend , I'll let you know if that is it the problem. Joe

I am sure that it will be fouled and cleaning could result in improvement. It does require the manifold removal which is detailed in other posts.

I get the feeling from the intermittant nature of it and the way that it changes with putting the car into Park or Neutral makes me think it is a vacuum line or something. But then I really don't know anything about cars.

Let me know how it goes removing the manifold, what you find, and how it affects the rough idle.

by the way after I turn the engine off I can hear a hissing sound from somewere. I dont know if its normal, I'll check into that.

I hear a similar sound as well, but I figured out that it was my wife who wants a new car.

In my case, I think it was some cooling fans for the ECM box behind the pass shock tower area. That was where the electronic controllers are and I believe the fans were to keep them cool for a while after shutdown

I hear it somewere from the turbo area, not sure exactly and I don't know if it's normal or not.

It sounds like that and that it is coming from the EGR area too but i finally traced it down to the ECM area where all the controllers are.

I am getting close to the problem
 

today I have checked one of my friends 1999 e300 td and there was no air bubbles at all in his fuel lines, so IT'S NOT NORMAL to have it. Now I will have to check all the lines with O-rings and everything. I will post the results.

no luck yet
 

I finally took off the intake manifold and the EGR, everything very clean , also checked the O-rings at the fuel lines everything is fine, I am thinking it maybe something to do with the electric part....

I do not know if your cars have a klima and over voltage protection relay. The climate control, idle and transmission circuits are connected there. Mine are located behind the shock tower near the electronics where you are talking about hearing the fan after shut down. I have an 87 300D. I just thought it was worth a mention in case you guys have this or something similiar to it.

THAT's a tough one....Best to take care of that Hiss lest it develop into a bite!

white smoke
 

White smoke indacates unburnt fuel. With an ohm meter disconect the wires on the glow plugs Check each one for resistance. About 1 ohm. They should all read the same. If not you may have found the problem.
Additionaly my VW TDI the glow plugs all were within spec but it still through a code. Along with rough idle and white smoke. Replacing the glow plugs solved the problem.
As I understand it. The glow plugs remain on after starting for a time.
Emissions no doubt.
-A
1999 E300 TD

glow plugs should be fine, I have no codes and the car starts excellent except for the shacking(half a minute). On my tdi the car ran fine even without the glow plug harnes on, anyway I think the GP-s are helping under 38- 40 degres F.

Tanx Mdisav, I'll have my friend that chipped my car check into that, I know he is prety good with this kind of stuff. Yeah we have klima on these by the way.

I notice that when I shutdown there are no bubbles. HOWEVER, when the car sits for a while, I notiuce that the hose going to the prefilter has a huge (1-1.25 in long) bubble. Never had a start problem.

OK, now I even replaced the MAF sensor and still no luck, strange.

Just a little somthing.. It took 1 month for all the air bubbles to leave the air lines in my car. It looks like it is a self purging system but I swear I watched the same air bubbles circulate around the IP. My wife also noticed that the car ran better above 1/2 tank. :confused:

I to had simular problems (white smoke). In the end I replaced the fuel lines & cut off solinoid, came up with the diesel purge proceedure, and started using redline 85 plus diesel fuel enhancer. It took a month for the car to really start to run good. The car now runs so good it sounds like a 2004 cdi.

Other factors could be the fuel at the pump and warmer weather but I will know next winter. We have had some cold days recently but the car still purrrrs.

could you tell me where the cut-off solenoid is and what does it do? Tanx

This thread should answer your question.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/105291-99-e300td-injector-pump-leak.html

found the problem
 

injection pump had to be replaced, $1500 , runs perfect now. Tanx for all the support, Joe

OUCH! What happened to the old pump.. do you still have it?

the shop took it.

D-zel,

My car has a similar problem that I outlined earlier. Basically shakes a lot but smooths out when the AC is turned on.

Had the injectors pulled and tested at two Bosch rebuild places and both of them told me the injectors are fine.

Brought it to the dealer who had it for a day and a half and thinks it is also the injector pump (which I suggested when I brought it in based on your posts). It is not clear to me how they came to the conclusion or what specific testing they did.

Do you know how to be sure that this is what is causing my problem? I don't mind having the pump rebuild but would like to be confident that it will run smoothly after that.

Also have been seeing a lot of black smoke with WOT recently but the air filter looks dirty so I will replace that. Could the black smoke be related to the injection pump problem (if that is the problem)?

Thanks,

I am sorry to dissapoint you guys but my car is still doing the damn shaking . It is in the shop for the fourth time, they are still checking on it without finding anything. I did not post anymore until we find the problem. I am sick of it allready. I wish Lexus would bring diesels here.

I spoke to the service technician who says that the injection pump is delivering too much fuel to two cylinders, and that they were able to smooth out the shaking by temporarily making a loose connection between the lines and the injectors. This is how they confirmed that it is the pump. This would also explain the excessive black smoke.

Local rebuild shop estimates $1500 for the pump.

I am sorry to see your problem hasn't been solved and now feel much less confident that mine will be solved as well.

Please let me know what happens.

One possibility is a bad engine coolant sensor. It may tell the computer the engine is warm, when in-fact its cold. This will cause the computer to misadjust the idle control.

I had a similar problem with my car recently. I have the wiring diagram and was able to diagnose it by measuring the resistance of the coolant sensor and determining that-its defective. Changing the sensor fixed the problem. My car, unlike yours, provides very limited engine codes. Defective coolant sensor is however one of the provided codes. However I also had no error codes whatsoever.

Perhaps someone with a wiring diagram for your specific car can help you out. Alternatively, as a substitute to the service CD you may want to subscribe to "ALL DATA" - http://www.alldatadiy.com/ - its around $25.00/year/Model car, and has the same info as the service CD. That's where I get most of my info, including diagnostic procedures, electrical wiring diagrams, etc., etc..

Much cheaper than having the dealer diagnose the problem.


Phil

Got the injection pump rebuilt by Gus at Pacific Fuel Injection Service. He did a beautiful job. If he is half as careful with the inside as he is with the outside than this should be a perfect pump. He showed me the machine that he uses to check the flow to each cylinder and and the average flow. This place is a great resource if you need a rebuilt pump or injectors. Did it faster and for less $ than his estimate!

Brought it back to the dealer who installed the new pump. This did cure the excessive black smoke with WOT. But the damn shake is still there when you put the transmission into N or P. This is the problem that I brought the car in for and it still hasn't been fixed.

It also seems a bit rough with a faint "Wah-Wah-Wah" when appraching a red light with the foot off the accelerator pedal.

Any suggestions?

D-zel, any progress?

YES the stumble or fluctuation in rpm's just off idle when decelerating... finally someone else noticed that.

If I were working on a gas engine here I would say it had a vacuum leak. I realize everything is electronic, but what if a guy were to pull the airbox or tube and partially block the intake to some degree while it was shaking? Dumb idea? Cheap to do...

Just an update to the shaking problem.
Two months now after having the injection pump rebuilt and the car runs smooth with no shake at idle like before. This definitely solved the problem.
Thanks for the help.

last time that the car was shaking it was 90 degrees outside, ever since than no more shaking. The shop told me to bring it in whenever is going to do it again. So probably april or may....

Glow plugs, CEL, rough idle... make it stop!!!
 

Help

I've been searching, reading through about 20 links regarding this stuff.
Vehicle - 1998 E300 turbodiesel, 108,000 miles

I also have a rough idle at startup, but it goes away after the car has been driven/ warmed up for 10-15 min. The car also vibrates, shudders more noticably when off the accelerator during these first few min. Also vibrates/ shudders when shifting from drive to Reverse

Codes:
CEL P0100 - check engine electronics, MAF/ AMM (ordered from fastlane, $181)
No glow plug code and no glow plug light irregularities on dash (GP never been changed to my knowledge)

My car starts easily, but idles VERY rough initially. All the comments about glow plugs & injectors worry me (I am anal and I do want to take good care of the MBZ)

Fuel, oil and Air filter are good to my knowledge
Oil analysis and change every 10k (filters every 5k) running AMSOIL 5W-40 synthetic - analysis results very good every time.

Help?
is this a GP issue? injector issue? other? :confused:
How do I test GP and where? @ the wires, relay or GP itself?
Injector test sounds like a diesel shop test, not DIY.

I'm ready to do the GP just for preventative maint - or out of disgust.

any takers?

1999 e300
 

92497pmu
The glow plugs can become a real problem when they go bad. The GP's thread deep into the cylinder and become difficult to remove. You need to be very careful when you remove them. Just use lots of penatrating oil "P B Blaster" works very well. As for the rest of the car. I can tell you everything you need to change to make it trouble free. Ask me how i know??
You will need to change out all the "plastic fuel lines" and rubber ones as well. Get dirty and clean the intake etc...Sounds like you might be sucking air...Change the trans fluid..... Expensive oil .......but worth it. I have all the part numbers, prices, manuals, trouble codes etc..The folks here have some great posts on all of these subjects.
Reading all this information is how i learned....
Email if you need more help.

CEL out!!! yippeee
 

Anthony (or other e-class ) E300DT owners

I replaced the MAF (AMM or whatever people call it)- CEL for P0100 out the next afternoon

How about the other stuff? Does a bad GP throw a code? or just make it a hard starter or run rough at idle. My car starts fine, just shakes like a biatch when the morning temp is under 40F (probably a few more of those days to come soon :( ), then settles down as it gets driven

I just bought a OBD II scanner from http://www.obddiagnostics.com/
hopefully this will yield some answers in the future. I'll let you know how it works out.

When (and how often) did you change the tranny fluid?
I have 100k+ miles, never changed = kinda worried
The last car I did this with blew the tranny 3 weeks later in Ramapo, NJ on the side of the road. Is MB any better at this or am I asking for trouble?

Phil

e300
 

Yes a bad GP will throw a code. If you have a digital Volt/Ohm meter, you can check the GP's they should all have the same reading. If one reading is off then its time for new ones. You may find a code when you check it. A good shake in the morning is two things. 1- Leaking fuel lines, sucking air. 2-A GP is bad. If there is lots of smoke more than likely its a GP. If not then its time for new fuel lines. Check the codes first.
As for the transmission....MB says its lifetime...... not so.
I changed it at 100,000 mi. with no problems. When I dropped the fluid it was nasty…. (15,000 mi. since) I think every 50,000 is good. Of course Everybody will have an opinion on this. That’s my 2 cents. The special fluid is available on this site.

Did you try cleaning the MAF with somethign like electric motor cleaner? Some people have reported that it works. I had a dead spot on my truck and after cleaning it, the dead spot disappeared.

Not always. Mine didn't set a code either time they needed to be replaced. My uncle also chased a starting problem for weeks in his E300 that turned out to be bad glow plugs, and no code was set.

I think mine just had the glow light on when one was bad. It would stay on after and the check engine light would come on

Yes, the glow plug light can also tell you that they're bad. The point I'm trying to make is "don't assume your glow plugs are good just because the computer and glow plug light don't tell you anything." The afterglow feature makes these plugs wear out much faster than glow plugs in the 70's and 80's era engines. And it is certainly possible to have one or more bad plugs without any symptoms other than poor starting.

Hey Rick, havn't seen you post in a while. Hows the 82 Euro doing?

Still humming along, but haven't been driving it much lately. The odometer started to slip a little, and I don't want to miss racking up any miles. So it's mostly sitting until I get a chance to fix that odo. And I'm having too much fun with the new Liberty CRD anyway. :D