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  #16  
Old 03-18-2005, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psfred
Describe this smoke problem -- there are a couple causes that have easy fixes!

Peter
Here is the Cliff notes version:
It started last summer as the car starting, running for a second, then acting like it ran out of fuel. Would start it and message pedal to keep it running. Was probably this way about a month. Smoke showed up, and it was only after startup, and would then go away. That morphed into being harder to start (running out of fuel symptom still) and massive smoke, mainly at idle and lower rpms. Not that noticable upon acceleration and higher rpm driving. All this seemed to start after I did a valve adjustment. When I did the valve adjustment they were all pretty close. I have gone back and checked them 2 additional times just to be sure I didn't mess something up. They are adjusted to the loose side of the spec., but not loose.
Injectors have been rebuilt, tank was drained, many different tanks of fuel have been run through. Fuel milage was down to 17mpg last time I checked, and it takes over a quarter mile/45 plus seconds to get up to 60mph. Car does not smoke at all when running diesel purge through it.
Air filter is new. Car will idle when it finally warms up, and idle adjustment knob can be turned down after it warms up. When warm and idling, cracking open injector line at IP changes engine idle at all injector lines. Mechanic who cracked the lines held hand over oil filler opening while running and said it didn't have blowby. (that's all he could find ) Engine has a miss, and you can feel the miss and hear if from the exhaust pipe.
Car is non-turbo.
I'm not sure how to check chain stretch(don't know how to find starting point and measure lift, etc...) and don't have a compression tester, so those haven't been done. Smoke doesn't smell like diesel really since the injectors were rebuilt.
It sure does shift well at least...

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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2005, 10:35 PM
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This is either very low compression (unlikely, as it would smoke black badly when warm, not white) or a combination of late injeciton/valve timing due to a badly stretched chain and/or bad injectors.

The injectors must be tested for opening pressure and spray pattern on a tester, a visual check of their condition won't tell you much.

I'd bet the timing chain is WAY long, due to age and possible iffy maintenance by PO(s) -- everyone cheats on oil changes on old cars, just like they cheat on brakes!

Note that you will get poor compression due to carbon buildup if the injection timing is way off.

Peter
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  #18  
Old 03-18-2005, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psfred
This is either very low compression (unlikely, as it would smoke black badly when warm, not white) or a combination of late injeciton/valve timing due to a badly stretched chain and/or bad injectors.

The injectors must be tested for opening pressure and spray pattern on a tester, a visual check of their condition won't tell you much.

I'd bet the timing chain is WAY long, due to age and possible iffy maintenance by PO(s) -- everyone cheats on oil changes on old cars, just like they cheat on brakes!

Note that you will get poor compression due to carbon buildup if the injection timing is way off.

Peter
I hope you're right cause I already have a chain, tensioner, guide rail, etc... (came with parts car)
The injectors have been rebuilt. Never have seen any dark smoke at all. Anyone in DFW area know the correct method for checking chain stretch?
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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John
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  #19  
Old 03-18-2005, 11:02 PM
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You think that is bad,you should see my '26 Delage DISS accelerate when cold! must burn half a quart.

The coppers can't touch it on account of it's a "historic"car and thus,like our treasured diesels,exempt from emissions testing,at least in New York.
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  #20  
Old 03-19-2005, 07:05 PM
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If this happened suddenly, I suspect the chain has jumped a tooth on the cam sprocket. This will make the valve and injection timing 13 degrees (plus chain stretch) late.

Don't put a used chain in there, get a new one, they aren't that expensive and the used one may in fact be worse that the one that was there. Make sure the tensioner works (must be VERY hard to compress when full of oil).

To check the chain stretch/valve timing, pull the valve cover off and align the notch in the thrust washer on the cam sprocket with the small bump on the front cam tower (about 1:30 or so). Make SURE you have the notch centered on the bump, and use ONLY the crank bolt to turn the engine (27mm, 1 1/6"). When you have the bump and notch aligned, read the degree wheel on the crank pulley, it will read some number of degress before TCD. Should be less than 8, but I'm betting yours is more like 20.

If the cam has jumped a tooth, you can remove the sproket bolt, CAREFULLY pull it off (do not drop chain!!!!!) and move the sprocket one tooth on the chain.

Be careful, if you drop the chain it gets messy...... Also, you must be sure you go the correct direction, else the valves hit the pistons. Crank engine around by hand before attempting to start and check timing again.

This will restore the engine to the condition it was in before the chain jumped, but you will still find it somewhat late (they will run fairly well up to 12-13 degrees late, mine did!). A new chain will fix that, and will also fix the late injection timing.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #21  
Old 03-19-2005, 09:51 PM
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As Psfred said replace the chain. But with that much smoke I would have the IP bench tested at least.
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  #22  
Old 03-19-2005, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psfred
If this happened suddenly, I suspect the chain has jumped a tooth on the cam sprocket. This will make the valve and injection timing 13 degrees (plus chain stretch) late.

Don't put a used chain in there, get a new one, they aren't that expensive and the used one may in fact be worse that the one that was there. Make sure the tensioner works (must be VERY hard to compress when full of oil).


Peter
That sounds plausible, if not likely. There was one instance that I moved the chain in the opposite direction to get the cam lobe correct. (just a minute amount). Maybe that was when it jumped.
I should have been more clear. With my parts car I got a brand new chain, rail, tensioner, lower inner and outer guides. I would not have considered putting on used one. Especially since the chain broke on the parts car, which is why it became a parts car I suppose.
I have tried to check the stretch before that way, but I have a very irregular looking pointer. I have a crude drawing of it in another thread, as the camera wouldn't illuminate that area enough. I'll look at the pointer on the parts car, and maybe that will help me figure out if mine has a problem.
I'm real appreciative Peter!!
Thanks to you other guys also.
Jimmy

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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John
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