Car Started 2 Weeks Ago... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

82silverbullet · #1 03-21-2005, 11:58 PM

I'm working on my 82 300sd. 2 weeks ago the starter started getting stuck on while the engine was running and would miss every few starts and just go "jinnnnng," yet the car was starting, only it took awhile to get it to start. Anyway, I replaced the starter with a a reman one in which the old numbers crossed over to, now the engine seems like it cranks over way too slow to start. And it doesn't start. My question is if anyone could understand this reason?

I actually have a dual battery setup, but the auxillary silenoids don't come before the starter as the positive lead from a single battery goes directly to the starter silenoid. I have jumped the starter directly and it still turns over very slow. I have cleaned my ground strap on the starter. I tested all the relays and voltages of the batteries and they are fine. So I took my starters to have tested at autozone, both tested fine (in actuality I know the old one messes up, I just tested it to see what it would pull) but I know this test can be faulty, as a starter under a load (especially this load) is a different story.

I currently am connecting a 50 amp booster along with jumper cables from my pickup and it still is not creating enough power to start. The engine eventually knocks hard when turning over, but never 'starts' and doesn't run.

And another thing, the previous starter literally rocked the engine like I rock polyester. Hard. This one seems weaker. ?????? I am stumped.

Any clues would GREATLY be apprectiated, as this is is very redundant, mainly because I just got the car a month ago...and I want to drive it!

Live on.
Love on.
Rock on.

whunter · #2 03-22-2005, 12:23 AM

That sounds like a bad re-manufactured starter.
Warranty it soonest.

82silverbullet · #3 03-22-2005, 12:55 AM

Is the starter not making enough compression to get combustion? With as many times as I've tried to start it over the past week, I can't see where another problem would be as the car should've started by now if it were getting proper compression.

Is there a certain rpm the tach should read at when turning the engine over??? Currently the engine cranks about 200 rpms...it used to crank at 1000-1500 or so, maybe more?

The thing I wonder though is that could there be a fuel problem preventing it from running? The car DID run before I replaced the starter, but I was having to crank it over a period of about 5 minutes to get it to start in the morning and pump the gas pedal like 50 times or so. The car would eventually start and after it did, it would run fine until it got cold again, then I'd have to start again at square 1 of long cranking moments.

I'm 90% sure it's the starter too...but 10% is telling me there is not sufficient fuel delivery (or both). I've looked for white smoke out the exhaust and do see it when the car is 'knocking' as I'm turning it over (as in wants to start but for some reason can't totally get there).

bill threlkel · #4 03-22-2005, 10:40 AM

Get another starter it needs to turn over fast and strong to start a diesel.
A lot of times a reman starters are defective.
Bill

Johnhef · #5 03-22-2005, 08:49 PM

ditto on what everybody says, replace the starter.

I had some problems with reman alternators. My 240D killed two of them, one after a month, one after a week. What brand is it/ where did you purchase it?

82silverbullet · #6 03-22-2005, 09:23 PM

The starter is from Advanced Auto, and it's a "world class." It is remanufactured, but I figured it'd be alright, especially on my college student budget.

How many amps and volts should one of these starters be pulling on one of those testers at the autoparts stores? This starter was pulling around 200 amps if not a little more. Should it be that high?

Is there anything else that would be preventing the engine from turning over as fast as it was?

The new starter doesn't ever make the tach. go over 300 rpms where as the old one (which I just put back on yesterday for fun) makes the tach jump anywhere from 500 to 1000 rpms (but like I said, it's bad...).

Oh...and advanced won't give me another starter unless this starter tests "bad" on their little machine, which isn't right.

boneheaddoctor · #7 03-22-2005, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82silverbullet

The starter is from Advanced Auto, and it's a "world class." It is remanufactured, but I figured it'd be alright, especially on my college student budget.

How many amps and volts should one of these starters be pulling on one of those testers at the autoparts stores? This starter was pulling around 200 amps if not a little more. Should it be that high?

Is there anything else that would be preventing the engine from turning over as fast as it was?

The new starter doesn't ever make the tach. go over 300 rpms where as the old one (which I just put back on yesterday for fun) makes the tach jump anywhere from 500 to 1000 rpms (but like I said, it's bad...).

Oh...and advanced won't give me another starter unless this starter tests "bad" on their little machine, which isn't right.

Advance is pretty good about honoring their warranty....just take it back and tell them its weak...and barely cranks the motor...

I got a remanufactured Brake booster from them for my W116 for $117 with a warranty..and the first master cylinder was bad and the replaced it with no arguements. It was quick and local....and right priced...

82silverbullet · #8 03-16-2007, 04:50 PM

OK, so as the weather has warmed up, my car decided, after doing away with the whole series/parallel setup system, and just one battery, to start up!

it took about an hour. I would crank it for a good amount of time, and it would turn over VERY slowly, and not make any detonation sounds (like as if the fuel injected at compression was not combusting). But the more and more I did this (remember, I have it jumped to another car the whole time too) the faster and faster the cranking started to get. So eventually the car started to bump up and down like it was getting combustion, and I could smell that familiar diesel burning smell as well.

Well, eventually, it started cranking over EXTREMELY fast!!!! And then it started and obviously, stayed running. It stays running for as long as I need it to. I never dies, nothing. IF i leave it sit for 4 hours or so though, then go back out to start it, I basically have to go through the same thing again....

ANY IDEAS??! Can someone please help me or give me a reason as to why my starter is cranking over SO slowly when I am cold starting my engine, but after so much cranking, the starter cranks the engine over like its a piece of cake????

I just don't understand. I thought there MIGHT be an air leak, where air could be entering the fuel line...but the thing is, it starts eventually, and when it does start, it runs PERFECT. no bumps, no weird things at all. It purrs like a kitten and runs like new.

ANY AND ALL help would GREATLY be appreciated, as spring and summer are soon approaching, and there is nothing more I'd like than to be cruising around town in my turbodiesel!! I'm willing to try anything!

Also, i'm thinking about getting a canister, filling it with diesel, and connecting it to the fuel line leading to the primer pump (the primary fuel line that eventually leads to the cylinders) to see if I can figure out if (if the problem is fuel related) there is a problem way after the engine in the fuel lines, or whether the problem might be I.P. related.

AGAIN, please help a very desperate man! I do not want to part with this car, and if i had to, i would get much more money for it if it actually started and ran! ( i just got an 85 500sel I'd like to get going.....)

junqueyardjim · #9 03-16-2007, 06:19 PM

I'd say just slow down a little. And stay with the facts. You mention I think in your first post that your old starter turned that engine to 1000/1500 rpm's. If that is what it read, then your tack is obviously out of whack. I am guessing now, for I don't have the exact number but I think if a starter can crank that engine up to anything over 200 RPM, it would be a very good job. About 700 rpm is ideling speed.
You talk about an extra battery and solenoids ect, are you sure this extra junk isn't crippling your starter. Mercedes Engineering thinks a single battery of a rather large size, (in cold cranking amps) is sufficient for the job. I would suggest you do a real good job of testing out your battery and starter. You wouldn't be the first that got a rebuilt starter that was less then good. Have them test it. It is possible they will give you a new one.
Have you checked your valves? A bad adjustment there can make starting mighty difficult. Do you have a block heater? Have you been using it? Have you checked for fuel system at all? Have you replaced any of the fuel filters? All of the above can effect cold weather starting very much.

junqueyardjim · #10 03-16-2007, 06:29 PM

Pumping the accelerator pedal while cranking the engine, while it might relieve the driver of frustration, won't help in the starting of this and most other diesels. The injection system is so made that while you are cranking, so much fuel is injected, and no more. Now in saying that, we have to make sure there is fuel in the sytem available to the injection pump. If fuel is not there it will not start.

Mister Byrnzoil · #11 03-16-2007, 07:52 PM

I'm thinking you had one bad battery... but tell me, how did you hook the batteries? positive to positive I hope.

Cervan · #12 03-16-2007, 08:02 PM

i suggest reading the mercedes owners manual. in cold conditions pump the pedal 3 times and then floor it (let off when the engine catches of course) and keep the starter turning until the engine is idleing smoothly meaning dont stop cranking when you hear one cylinder going KEEP GOING and remember on the first try you every try to start a diesel will be your BEST CHANCE after that you are coating the precomb chamber with cold diesel remember dont ever EVER use any starting fluid and if you for gods sakes have to use some type of starting fluid use wd-40 and make sure to put the fluid it WHILE THE ENGINE IS CRANKING NOT WHILE YOUR PREGLOWING. it sounds wrong that you have to crank it for so long mabie your glowplugs are shot maybie your relay is gone i would test both of them make sure they are both good. you should see the "saltshaker" light up when you turn the key to position 2. also mercedes says you can crank the starter for up to 30 seconds i would do it for maybie 15 but any more than that your risking heat damage.

Also if you havent adjusted the valve lately its a good idea if they are "tight" this will cause a loss of compression making it hard to start.

that is all...

mespe · #13 03-16-2007, 08:18 PM

This thread is weird,,, it starts out two years ago by 82silverbullet, with bonehead finishing up the thread, then all-of-a sudden 82silverbullet in March of 2007.

Unless the ambient temps are really low, you shouldn't have to crank too long,,, unless, you have one or more bad GP's or your valve timing is out of whack. I hope it didn't take you 2 years to get your car started.

barry123400 · #14 03-17-2007, 12:56 AM

I suspect like others you had a sub standard rebuilt. Not sure but it is was the prime suspect.
Now how I deal with this we cannot change it as it tests good thing. I simply ask them for an agreement that if I have the car repaired and it turns out to be the replacement part is defective they swallow the whole bill. If it is not it I pay the bill.
Worked well the few times I have been forced to use it. In fact they could not give me a replacement item quick enough. Much depends on your presentation but few clerks like to risk it. It costs their company nothing usually to give you another starter. You have to find out if that starter is good. I suspect it was not.
How did you resolve the issue eons ago I assume?

82silverbullet · #15 03-17-2007, 04:50 PM

well yea, I will admit, i started this thread a LONG time ago and since then, wrecked the Benz. I have been working on the body since then, and now have it in pretty good shape. The engine...well, i never bothered with it, besides removing the extra solenoids for the two battery setup, which has proven to be a very wise idea. The engine came to the point where it wouldn't even turn over, but after removing the whole series/parallel junk, it turns over, and I managed to start it last week.

So I'm at the point where my battery IS good. It is a very good, Energizer brand battery, and has around 700CCA I believe. That is sufficient for starting this Benz in my experience.

So when I am cranking this engine over, it seems like there is something that is "resisting" the starter. It seems like the starter is having to strain to turn over the engine. After awhile though, it will turn over the engine like any other car that is in good cranking condition.

Another thing I'd like to add is that I have all new glowplugs, and I've checked them, they are working. Also, I've checked the relay, all pins on the relay are receiving battery voltage, but I have yet to check the current of the plug that goes to the glowplugs. From my understanding it should be about .1 ohm for each glowplug. PLEASE correct me if I am wrong, because that is just what I read on another website. Also, I have a heat gun (with the little laser light that tells the temp of the thing the light is on) and each glow plug seems to be at at least 15-20 degrees higher than it was if it were cold (around 50 degrees F).

The constant fluctuation in the starter is what is really bothering me. Would something like VALVE ADJUSTMENT have anything to do with making the engine harder to turn over by the starter? Meaning adding more resistance to the whole starting process??? I would truly love to adjust the valves, but if I don't have to, then I'm not going to.

So I guess my main question is, would valve position change, overtime, increase the load on the starter??

ALSO!! Another thing. When I push the gas pedal while turning over the engine, the engine IMMEDIATELY goes into "slow crank" mode and barely wants to turn over. This HAS to mean something to somebody!!!

When I PRESS THE FUEL PEDAL WHILE STARTING, the engine IMMEDIATELY goes from turning over decently to turning over VERY SLOWLY. So slow, that there is no chance that it could even start.

Once again, thanks EVERYBODY for the help. I've gone through ALL the basics though. Glowplugs, battery, checked for fuel delivery, checked vacuum, and almost anything else "basic."

Help once again would be appreciated!! Surely these facts I've listed will bring something to mind to those that are diesel/Benz experienced!!

I'm so thankful for a forum like this...its so handy for the DIY'er!!

also, I don't think I need another starter...but if anyone thinks that the symptoms presented are due to the starter, then I am willing to get another one. They just cost an arm and a member.

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