Ya, folks can find every reason under the sun not to do something.

For all the time spent explaining why Aklim can't/won't do it, it would have already been done, had his energies been spent torward effort other than nay-saying.
Looks to me that Whunter and Aklim live in similar climes....
Claims that "noone ever tells the whole truth" make me wonder what you have been reading. Or rather, what you have been not reading.
But I have seen enough of these posts to make it clear that money is the only motivation for you to consider alternative fuels. We will see what tune you are whistlin in about 6 months...

__________________
Think Alternative Energy!
300CD '80 (now gone but not forgotten...)

I have never got the whole truth from an advocate in my life without extracting it out of them. Not necessarily WVO or SVO. In general. As such, I am always skeptical about anything new that is proposed. I get all the warm glowing stuff but never full details on how difficult a process it would be to achieve it. Let me ask you this, talk to an advocate of a process and tell me that they tell you everything from the good to the bad to the ugly. In my life, I get told the good and the bad is glossed over. And you wonder why I am a skeptic of everything.

Money is the FIRST motivation but not necessarily the ONLY motivation. For instance, you make B100 a true substitute for regular diesel and I'll buy it. I won't pay more for it but if it is a matter of going B100 or regular diesel and the pumps are say next to each other, I'll go B100. If there are a lot more issues like advailability, price, gelling, etc, etc, then I will stick with regular diesel. In this case, I wouldn't go for SVO because I calculate the time I spend and figure it in to the cost and the cost is higer than regular diesel. But if all things are equal, I can use other criteria to make a selection.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

It is true that enthusiastic folks tend to stick to positive elements of the conversation. And it is equally true that converting a car to WVO is a pain in the @ss the first time you do it. Or as I prefer to view it, a great education with a somewhat steep learning curve. When I discuss alternative fuels, I like to mention the bad with the good, but I focus on the good. Which IMHO far outweighs the bad.
I don't mean to sound like I am slammin you, these are just ideas we are lalking about, upon reflection, my last post could be mis-understood...
I just feel that it is a tad ironic that some folks just choose to nay-say and focus on why it would be so hard to do, while the rest of us just do it!
And I gotta say, I love my exhaust smell these days... my favorite part is no more supher cause of me (leading cause of athsma in inner-city youth)

__________________
Think Alternative Energy!
300CD '80 (now gone but not forgotten...)

MBCA is a good example of that.
The new members can only see the good side.
Older members are happy to explain that a rundown or broken heap MB is a money pit, just waiting to devour your bank balance.

I ran SVO last summer, got it free = 1/3 reduction in my years fuel cost.

I run used hydraulic oil any time I can get it free = 150 gallons this past winter.

For me and mine; hemorrhaging money at the pump is not cost effective.

Ask PEH, every dollar not spent = massive savings when you retire, which is when you will NEED it...

PEH is stupid; like a bloody wise old fox.
That is one very good reason to listen when he speaks, he is not perfect, but who is.

WHunter,

Thank you for the vote of confidence.

P E H

I beg to differ on your last "Fact"??
There are many diesel injector pumps which will fail if fed cold WVO, even if liquid (many WVOs are solid at 40'F). These require that the IP is up to operating temp and the WVO is at that temp as well. This is well documented on a couple of internet sites. Search on CAV or Lucas IPs. From what I have been told, the Stanadyne is very similar to the CAV, and may suffer similarly.

Even for those diesels with injector pumps which can take cold WVO, the use of unheated WVO can contribute to carbon accumulation in the combustion chambers/prechambers.
Any diesel conversion which does not heat the vegetable oil to above 60'C should be considered a poor conversion, which does not meet minimum standards (although there have not been any standards published yet).

The Wizard of Oz

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Tony from West Oz.
Fatmobile 3 84 300D 295kkm Silver grey/Blue int. 2 tank WVO - Recipient of TurboDesel engine.
Josephine '82 300D 390kkm White/Palamino int.
Elizabeth '81 280E, sporting a '79 300D engine.
Lucille '87 W124 300D non-turbo 6 cylinder OM603, Pearl Grey with light grey interior


Various parts cars including 280E, 230C & 300D in various states of disassembly.

SVO is what I talked about; not WVO, the cloud points are different
I cut it with kerosene and it works very well.

I just happen to be a very pessimistic person. As such, I am seldom disappointed and sometimes pleasantly surpirsed. And unlike Whunter, I cannot do everything my car needs myself. Most of the mechanics I go will fix the car the way it was designed at the factory. For instance, we have the fix for the MAF where you just replace it with a better unit here and I asked my shop about it and they said "We don't know about it. when the MAF goes bad, we replace the eitire unit as per the book." So, If I replaced it the way the post goes, I would be all alone if something else goes wrong. In my 91 Vette, I have to do everything myself and if I can't, I have to find mechanics that will do stuff they don't really understand but have tools for. I can only imagine what they will say when I bring in a car with anything but diesel in the tank should I have a running issue. I tend to focus on the bad points of anything. Should it somehow survive that scrutiny, I might test it out and adopt it.

I didn't really take what you said as slamming me. After all, your opinion is as valid as mine so you are free to express it and I don't take it personally unless I see some sort of personal attack which I didn't.

Your and many others focus on the intangibles and tend to rate them higher than I would. Again, that is a matter of opinion. I tend to rate the tangibles ahead of the intangibles. When I consider a car like mine, I checked the driving that will be done, figure out the average cost of maintenance per mile (I charge the ledger the same rate whether I do it or the shop does it for accounting purposes) fuel cost, ease of getting fuel, etc, etc. If all things come out say the same between an equivalent gas car and a diesel and the diesel is healthier for others, I will then pick the diesel. As such, you were partially right. The money (time spent also contributes to this) was the primary concern that will over ride all others. Once the primary need (must have) is met, I will look at secondary needs (would be nice to have).

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Good. It is just that sometimes I can write something, have it taken the wrong way, or read it later myself and be surprised at how it sounds. I am not trying to be offensive, just have strong opinions...
I understand the point about other mechanics working on the car. For me that is almost never the case, just can't afford it, make myself learn.
Also I am surrounded by sympathetic veg oil people. Though by installing the two-tank myself, I could easily switch it back to stock plumbing prior to someone else working on it, just a couple of hoses to swap, really.

__________________
Think Alternative Energy!
300CD '80 (now gone but not forgotten...)

OK, so long as none of the SVO is a high melting point oil eg Hydrogenated oil, it will pass thryu the IP and the engine will operate.
I still do not agree that these engines will not be subject to any carbon build up or damage, when using such fuels.

There have not been any definitive experiments done on the effects of such fuels on the engines and IPs.

If you have links to such tests, please post links so that we can be informed.

I got a copy of WIS and EPC so I can figure out what needs to be done and how and with what parts. Unfortunately there are many things that still need complicated tools that I cannot afford to buy if they are one time use only. I don't have $7K to spend on SDS for the amount I use it. If the car does not have a CD changer and you add an MB unit you buy, you still have to get the dealership with the SDS to tell the computer that a CD changer exists. For example, it cost me $100 to time my IP. I would have to learn how to and also buy a tool that AFAIK, is about $250 for me to use maybe once more in my lifetime. Now, if I got the tech to work on the side for cash, it would go a lot cheaper.

I was around my dealership when I blew a hose on my power steering. I asked them to take a peek at it but they refused because it was a Pontiac and not a Mercedes. I gaurantee that if they knew anything but diesel went into that engine, they would do a "Pontius Pilot" on me and say "Good Luck finding someone to work on it."

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I agree with Tony that your statement is a little oversimplistic. I have been around the veggie movement quite a while and I just don't think there is enough data out there to say for sure an unmodified engine is safe to run on any veggie, straight or waste. The only "scientific" experiments done with unheated oil showed engine damage with prolonged usage. Now those were usually constant-speed engines with direct injection, so we are comparing apples to oranges. But, if you start advocating every diesel on the road do this, statistically I think you will see a much higher failure rate.

Beyond the mechanical factors, if everyone were running WVO, how long do you expect it would be free for us to use? The day isn't far off when none of us will be able to get waste oil free. In many parts of the country it is happening now. Any vehicle conversion done now has to be done with the acceptance that there is a definite planned obsolescence in place. It could still probably be cheaper than petrol diesel, but will it be cheap enough to warrant the increased time and hassle it takes to prepare it for use? I don't have the answer for that one. Mass-produced biodiesel, though, will probably be cheaper than either someday.

__________________
Keep everything as simple as possible-but no simpler--Albert Einstein

Fueled up today...

Diesel: $2.62/gal
B-20: $2.67/gal
B-99: $2.52/gal

H202,

If those were the options, I'd buy the B99 and stick it to an AAAAArab.

Where were you located when you saw those prices?

P E H

...Olympia, WA. B-99 it is, and ever shall be.