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#1
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mercedes garbage
it seens like all mercedes are garbage except the
diesels from early 1980's 300d 300sd I have a beauitful 300te station wagon gas and the engine has been rebuilt twice....and its still in the shop and there is always some computer or electronic problem...and reading this forum i see tons of bad things said about everything but the 300d or 300sd I also listen to shortwave and i listen to German radio every night and they are complaining about massive unemployment and about how there auto quality has fallen to all time lows. 1983 300sd |
#2
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Not all gas models are garbage. I have a '84 230CE and it has been a very reliable car for myself and the previous owners. Aside from a few brake problems which even a diesel model could have, it's never let me down.
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DJ 84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012 |
#3
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If you feel all Mercedes-Benzes are "garbage," except 2 models from the early 80's, why come around here?
Go crawl back in your hole. Last edited by GoWolfpack; 05-27-2005 at 12:14 AM. |
#4
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Subject: Are newer models "Garbage"?
Hey now Lets be focussed! Even though the subject is wide and encompasses all Mercedes, it includes diesels, so I'll chime in on this forum.
I would hesitate to use the word "garbage" to define the later Mercedes but I will say "reduced long term reliability" or "higher overall ownership costs" are factors associated (unfortunately) with newer Mercedes and other car manufacturers, too! If you looked at the 350SDL rod bender issues you would really see one diesel related issue that has affected quite a few owners of a fairly recent production. Then there is the #14 head in the OM603 (mine is still fine, knock on wood ) Or the failures of vac pumps and loose nuts that let washers loose from the oil baffles in later 126 (and some 124?) diesels, resulting in siezed-up engines. The 103 engines and the 300E/CE/TE are known to eat head gaskets, perhaps because so many mechanics re-use the head bolts, or the gaskets they buy (Ehlring?) are not up to the proper standards (see my post re: Victor Reinz gaskets for the 350SDL.) or just that the heads have too little "meat" in critical areas? We all shouild be aware that aluminum heads are here to stay, with great potential for corrosion that accompanies this material. Then what about the tail light panels that lose connections and need to be replaced on (I think its) the 202 models, or crank dampners in lots of gassers since 1995, subject to an ongoing campaign (uh, make that recall?) Then there are the (quote) "wiring harness problems began in the 1993 models when Mercedes switched to a new biodegradable wire insulation which had been mandated in Europe to reduce pollution (poly-vinyl chlorides). The new insulation can't take sustained heat and it gets brittle, then cracks. Another example of "No good deed goes un-punished"; as lots of electrical wiring ended up in the dumps". (thanks to whoever worded that so well!) The subject is something that bothers me becausae I see more than I read here on the ShopForum, spending time at a couple of local Indy shops, eating with them and bending a few elbows whenever possible, I get to see and hear plenty of stuff! I also used to talk with a mechanic at the dealer (on my turf, not at the dealership!) and the things I heard were amazing! It is undeniable that the new generation Benz are not the old bulletproof cars that the 123's and some early 126's are. I think this subject is great, please don't tell someone to crawl back in their hole, its not democratic (with a small d) and we welcome whatever one has to say, its an open forum, isn't it?
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'95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D wolf in sheeps body, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine at 367,750 and counting! Last edited by dieseldiehard; 05-27-2005 at 01:19 AM. |
#5
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Cars are simply built differently now. In fact, with MB it started in 1992. The old system under which the engineers rolled out a car after they were satisfied with it disappeared. MB, having to adjust from a "hang the expense" engineering system to a "very budgeted" system had to make several sacrifices. So the quality of the MBs produced after 1992 can't touch those of the earlier cars -- within reason of course.
Fact is, no vehicle built today will be as durable as the old MBs. It isn't just MB, it is everyone. These electrical systems today will be nightmares when the cars are very old (>10 years), nightmares even greater than whatever we have experienced. You know why? Electrical systems get worse not with usage but with age!! Wires weaken, resistance increases, etc. These cars will all give big problems in the future. And here's another kicker: why bother making cars last so long when the people who initially pay the stratopheric prices for them when they're still new get them in top shape with everything working (yes, I know that there are problems and warranty claims, but for the most part these cars work well when new).
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1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen 1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver 2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver |
#6
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The 80s era gas six cylinder was pretty good too, so was the 5 liter V8, the 2.3L 4cyl 16V was nothing much to talk about, had too many complaints but none of the gassers came inch close to the reliability of the diesels, mainly the legendary OM 616/617 normally aspirated or turbo. The fact of the matter is that MB trusted the diesels for both passenger and commercial apps, these same engine have been deployed in LCV, 4WD as well as gun carriers due to MB's faith in them.
The current CRDI 2.7L might have more power than the OM 616/617, it is not seen in any commercial deployment, goes to show how much faith MB has in it. |
#7
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The 2.7 liter cdi can be found in the Sprinter Vans....which are used in commercial/fleet use.....so I do think they trust those....they seem to be a very well built engine. It is yet to be seen if the new 3.2 liter V6 cdi holds up to or exceeds the quality/performance of the 2.7 liter...
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life- '15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800) '17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k) '09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k) '13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k) '01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km) '16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k) |
#8
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I'm not sure I would blame MB directly for the "garbage" after the early 80s. I think it was the lack of competition at the time that allowed MB to build the "tanks" they did at the time - that were 2 or 3X the price of a Cadillac. They didn't have the more comparable Lexus or Infinity to deal with at the time to apply price pressures. If Lexus or Infinity were around then, maybe we wouldn't be here in this forum talking about these great old cars.
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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??) |
#9
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Quote:
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Think Alternative Energy! 300CD '80 (now gone but not forgotten...) |
#10
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Quote:
Marshall |
#11
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Don't know where you got that. So far as I am concerned Mercedes never made a bad car, with the possible exception of the rear engined 170 of 1934. It's not even that some are better than others. It's just that each has its own application, and some are better than others for certain purposes. For example the big 560 V8 is a magnificent car but if you offered to give me one I couldn't afford to drive it because of the gas mileage.
The old 300D and SD are possibly the best all round choices for the patrons of this board, who don't have a lot of dough to throw around and like to do their own repairs. OK don't like to do their own repairs but do them anyway. But that is not to say that every other model is "garbage". |
#12
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Best Regards, Jim |
#13
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Blueranger,
Yeah, they're all junk. It has to be a right wing conspiracy. As far as what you hear on German radio goes, that's the result of acute socialism. Have a great day, PS, I find it quite interesting that in your opinion, all of the MB's EXCEPT the particular model range that you own are junk. LB |
#14
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The M103 has got to be one of the toughest MB engine's ever made. Of course, EVERY engine MB made is equally as tough as the next(with the exception of the 3.5 liter diesel).
If the engine was rebuilt twice, he must've covered millions of miles from a full operating engine service interval. You couldn't be more wrong, my friend.
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1987 300SDL (324000) 1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000) 1978 Porsche 924 (99000) 1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000) |
#15
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no
my station wagon is beauitful 300te
but it was rebuilt in sept 237k miles and truth be know it was partially rebuilt before that and now 6 months later its being rebuilt again... the only success i have with mercedes is my 83 300sd boy i love this car but on the newer cars it seems like the electronis go out a lot... and i am to the point where i am about to go buy 3 83's |
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