50 MPG city and 60 MPG highway diesel? Bring it on!! - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

t walgamuth · #16 05-30-2005, 11:53 AM

while on the subject of wish lists. i wish that mercedes offered a car similar in concept to the venerable 123 240d. a four cylinder in a c class or the little coupe with the six speed. normally aspirated. crank windows, manual seats, manual heat/ ac controls, etc. basic transportation. there are a lot of us 240 lovers out there who would buy one. a turbo as an option will be ok too for you speed demons out there.

goodkingharry · #17 05-30-2005, 12:45 PM

Click on link for photos (right wheel steering) and interesting specs on the LUPO. We can buy their Golf, Jetta, etc, but the Lupo and Polo models aren't available to us. Why not? (Although I heard something about getting around the rule would be to remove the engine over "there" and ship the engine and body over here to be reassembled, in between registering it as a "kit" car.) Anyone know any more about this? Harry.

Brad123D · #18 05-30-2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon314159

Is your 81 jetta a TDI or naturally aspirated.

Naturally aspirated. It is an earlier engine than the car(circa '79) 1500cc, rebuilt and stripped down to the bare essentials. No air, PS, PB or vacuum pump. Head studs instead of stretch bolts to hold the head on, etc.

BodhiBenz1987 · #19 05-30-2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

while on the subject of wish lists. i wish that mercedes offered a car similar in concept to the venerable 123 240d. a four cylinder in a c class or the little coupe with the six speed. normally aspirated. crank windows, manual seats, manual heat/ ac controls, etc. basic transportation. there are a lot of us 240 lovers out there who would buy one. a turbo as an option will be ok too for you speed demons out there.

Sounds neat ... but let's keep in mind this is America. As much as I love this country, we don't tend to think that way as a nation. Most Americans would view a car like that as being a "step backwards" or a total dinosaur. Most people want trinkets, power, flash and convenience ... and heaven forbid they should have to do any thinking to make the car go from point A to B. I think the spirit of the older Mercedes diesels like the 240D and the 123 300D has kind of passed in this country. I think in the past, the "less powerful" cars offered by MB were made to appeal to people who wanted something simpler or more efficient. The "less powerful" MBs offered now are made to appeal not to that crowd, but to people who want the "image" but not the price. Thus, I don't think they could sell simplicity and economy in the smaller Benzes.

DieselJim · #20 05-30-2005, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

i would think that the issue of the diesel not warming up could be fairly easily solved. i think there must be other reasons for the mfgrs not doing the diesel hybrid. i think that i read that mb is working on one.

The R-Class concept SUV at one of the shows had a V-8 CDI electric hybrid. I hope it gets to the showroom soon. Don't feel guilty about a little diesel soot. Helps counteract global warning. There was a study recently that says the decrease in particulate emissions may be as responsible as CO2 increases for global warming. We know from volcanos and forest fires over history that particulates cool the earth. So puff those diesels. Nothing like a good whiff of diesel soot to make my day!

Brad123D · #21 05-30-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselJim

So puff those diesels. Nothing like a good whiff of diesel soot to make my day!

Now that's a diesel person ! It beats that rotten egg smell any day !

rwthomas1 · #22 05-30-2005, 09:17 PM

From what I have seen there is a need in this country for a no-frills style economy car that is built with quality. For all the attention the SUV, V8 driving crowd gets there is an awful lot of Prius' on the road. They are selling them as fast as they can build them. I doubt they are discounting them any either. The simplest answer is to import the Lupo. All the technology you want and economy to make the hybrids look silly. VW already sells all the TDI's it can without any advertising. Instead of upmarketing like they have been doing with TDI Passats and Touregs, the Lupo would cut the economy car market off at the knees. Its awful hard to argue with 60-70mpg. RT

t walgamuth · #23 05-30-2005, 09:32 PM

the 240d modern that i describe is almost certainly built in germany. i think that they just think that they can make so much more sending us only the big ticket items that that is all they want to do.

DieselJim · #24 05-30-2005, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwthomas1

From what I have seen there is a need in this country for a no-frills style economy car that is built with quality. For all the attention the SUV, V8 driving crowd gets there is an awful lot of Prius' on the road. They are selling them as fast as they can build them. I doubt they are discounting them any either. The simplest answer is to import the Lupo. All the technology you want and economy to make the hybrids look silly. VW already sells all the TDI's it can without any advertising. Instead of upmarketing like they have been doing with TDI Passats and Touregs, the Lupo would cut the economy car market off at the knees. Its awful hard to argue with 60-70mpg. RT

I disagree. I think americans want full size, nice cars that get good mileage. I think the Prius is a cult car. To small for most americans and families. American's like the sedans and trucks. Now I do agree that a good economy car has been a niche that has been ignored. The welfare state of Ford and GM cannot be maintained on economy cars. I do think the Charger and GTO are insane in this environment.

DieselJim · #25 05-30-2005, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

the 240d modern that i describe is almost certainly built in germany. i think that they just think that they can make so much more sending us only the big ticket items that that is all they want to do.

I hope Chrysler imports more mainstream Euro Benzes into this county. I hope the Sprinter van is only the beginning.

jacrouch · #26 05-30-2005, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

From what I understand, the early VW diesels were of notably poor quality in terms of longevity and problems. I have seen them referenced (along with early diesel Olds) as among the reasons diesel passenger cars got a bad name in this country. I don't know much beyond that. Would be interesting to research.

i'm not sure when VW first made diesels in the states, but i know my dad had an '82 rabbit that lasted 13 years, and when he got rid of it, it was only because so many regular maintenance repairs/replacements had piled up. he was kinda rough on that car, too.

Palangi · #27 05-30-2005, 10:32 PM

The first VW Wabbit diesels were mid-1977 model year. The early cars were made in Germany and could be identified by the round headlights. Not too long after that, they opened a plant in Pennsylvania where they made the square eye version for a couple years. Seems like it was in the early 80s when thet pulled the plug on the PA plant.

H-townbenzoboy · #28 05-30-2005, 10:35 PM

Well, I wish we had more diesel cars here. Heck, Chrysler is offering the new 300C with a diesel engine over in Europe, with the MB 3.0L V-6 engine. The 300C is a nice full-sized car, I don't care what critics say, I like the styling, although I think the front bumper needs to be a little more pronounced with a little less of that long grille. I think it would sell well in today's gas price climate in the States.
-Joe

t walgamuth · #29 05-30-2005, 10:36 PM

one of the things db is doing is building chryslers on benz chassis such as the crossfire and the 300, being built on the slk and the s class chassis. i am hoping that the next thing they will do is offer the mb diesel in the magnum with a six speed... i would buy that for sure. oh yeah they are offering a four cyl diesel turbo int he jeep liberty for 06.

i rented a 300 over the christmas holiday when we flew out to vegas and toured around to the grand canyon and such. it had the small us built v6, drove like a benz and got over 30 mpg. i filled it three times...each time over 30 and driving 75-80 out there. i was astounded. i would not buy one like that because of quality issues with the us built engine and tranny, but it was a sweet ride. it had the euro style dash (benz), cloth interior. comfy, fast enough (a little doggy but once wound up would cruize easily at 80).

give me the magnum 320cdi six speed!!!

BodhiBenz1987 · #30 05-30-2005, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacrouch

i'm not sure when VW first made diesels in the states, but i know my dad had an '82 rabbit that lasted 13 years, and when he got rid of it, it was only because so many regular maintenance repairs/replacements had piled up. he was kinda rough on that car, too.

I would guess the references I had heard were pointed at the late 70s models. The gas crisis led to a diesel-car boom, from what I understand ... many car manufacturers started offering diesels (or importing them to the states for the first time). I think VW offered a diesel in 77/78 ... I think the early 80s models were probably the next round. I've never been a fan of VW, particularly, so I honestly don't know the history. Maybe someone else around here has a better tab on it.