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  #106  
Old 06-27-2005, 09:27 PM
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Location: Longview, TX
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Wish mine would do that...Larry, any possiblity you could help me get it to that point? I could drive to Sumner, it's only a couple hours from Longview, where I might be living within the next month or two. It's currently running R134a (no comments please, I'm not the one who converted it), but I would have no problem going back to R12.
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1984 300D 130,000 miles "Silver Blue Metallic"
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  #107  
Old 06-28-2005, 08:57 AM
LarryBible
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ridinsmooth,

I'd like to help, but I just don't have any time to take in outside work. I work at home now and the kids are now gone so I'm using the time to take back up a hobby of mine from my childhood. This hobby takes all my free time, but I'm having a blast.

There are lots of good auto a/c shops in Texas. One of the very best is McCains Auto in North Dallas near the TI plant at 635 and 75. I am almost on the river, over 100 miles from Longview. Richardson is probably as close to Longview as my place.

If you're handy as a DIY'er, you could do most of the work yourself and have most any shop evacuate and charge the system once you're done. We can tell you the reverse conversion procedure here and guide you through it.

Good luck with it,
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  #108  
Old 06-28-2005, 07:27 PM
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Location: Longview, TX
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Thanks

Thanks Larry, just having you offer to talk me through the procedure is more than enough. Once I have some time and extra money, I'll probably start tackling it myself. I think just to make it easier, I'm gonna try to go with Dave's procedure, and install a parallel flow condensor. I'm probably going to wind up running it on 134 just because most shops don't want to touch R12 anymore. My first project for it however, will be finding the leaks, so I know what needs to be replaced. I've been reading a lot about AC's and am amazed at the wealth of knowledge available here on the forum. My big question is, as long as it's not leaking, can the evaporator simply be flushed out or should I replace it? Thanks to everyone for the help I've already gotten and for any help I'll get in the future.
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1984 300D 130,000 miles "Silver Blue Metallic"
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  #109  
Old 06-28-2005, 10:02 PM
LarryBible
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ridinsmooth,

It is very simple and only costs $15 to take the epa test and get certified so that you can buy R12. I bought some a few months ago for $14.06 per pound. Statistically systems converted to 134 are short lived. I would highly recommend that you simply fix it, whatever it takes and use R12. You can't buy a PF condensor for what the R12 costs.

Your car is not one that is known for the leaky evaporator. Simply flush it and use it unless there is a known leak.

Good luck,
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  #110  
Old 07-01-2005, 02:37 PM
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You may want to pull a vacuum on the system first to see if you have any major leaks needing repair. Using R-12 or Freeze 12 is really the best way to go. You will be MUCH happier than using that toxic junk 134a.
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  #111  
Old 07-01-2005, 03:17 PM
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Jbaj007 said above that Freeze12 is 80 Percent 134a...
So that narrows it down to R12 for a long happy life....
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  #112  
Old 07-01-2005, 04:09 PM
LarryBible
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Freeze 12 is MOSTLY 134, with another component plus a tiny bit of flammables thrown in for kicks. So how is it less toxic?

Have a great day,
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  #113  
Old 07-05-2005, 10:42 PM
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No Freeze 12 is really amonia and highly flamable agent orange and DDT mixed in.

Or is it, methane and chlorine gas suspended in an aquous solution or nitrodiphosophene.

No, maybe a solution of methalethelkeyatone with a good measure of phosophene with hydrogenated peanut oil.

No, maybe a fluid component of hydro cracking in a gas of ozone depleting diazanonefloromethane

Oh I dont know....but is sure does work good.

Still getting perfect cooling with 38 degrees at the vent in 90's outside temp.

I think next time I will use propane, it cools better and reduces compressor head pressure over 22%. Making a longer lasting compressor.

But the best substance is by far ammonia. Super heat transfer properties and low head pressure. Makes for some cold temps at the evaparator.
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  #114  
Old 07-06-2005, 12:14 AM
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My 560 was converted to Freeze 12 exactly 3 years ago and is blowing ice cold even in city driving. I don't see anything bad with it, knock on wood.
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  #115  
Old 07-06-2005, 07:53 AM
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Glad to see Freeze 12 is still blowing ice cubes! No suprises there.

Remember necessity is the mother of invention

I guess all the saber rattlers dont want to hear that something other than R-12 or toxic 134a is actually working.
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  #116  
Old 07-06-2005, 09:24 AM
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So you consider your Freeze 12 that is mostly 134 not to be toxic, when you admit that 134 IS toxic? Very interesting logic.

Freeze 12 along with many other alternative refrigerants will indeed provide great cooling. That is not the issue. The issues are much more complex and far reaching than that.

To begin with very few shops have recovery equipment for the stuff and run the risk of contaminating an entire tank of otherwise reusable refrigerant. Additionally due to lubricant circulation problems and often higher head pressures, converted systems statistically last about two years before other major problems ensue.

You don't worry about Freeze 12 in a recovery system because you plan to service the car yourself? Will you REALLY own the car forever? At some point, a system without correct fittings or markings will most likely end up in some poor guys shop that does not know what refrigerant is in it. This is some guy that is trying to make a living and buy groceries and shoes for the baby just like everybody else. He is the poor guy that stands to lose 30 or more pounds of refrigerant PLUS pay a disposal fee.

Go ahead and run the stuff and keep cool. Statistics indicate that you are shortening the life of your a/c system and you have no obligation whatsoever to worry about anyone else that might bear the grief at a later time. The heck with them! They're on their own! That's their problem! I'll deal with my problems and they can deal with theirs!

Have a great day,
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  #117  
Old 07-06-2005, 09:41 AM
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I stand behind LarryBible and Leathermang on this......as they have explained there are many reasons NOT to use the "Mixes" or "Blends" and very little reason to use them.

I am no expert on the subject but they have convinced me.
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  #118  
Old 07-07-2005, 04:32 PM
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Larry Freeze 12 is NOT 134a. So all your following logic is null and void.

Have a nice day.
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  #119  
Old 07-07-2005, 05:17 PM
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"Larry Freeze 12 is NOT 134a. So all your following logic is null and void."--DieselGiant

This is so easy for others to check... that I can not believe you would keep saying it.... except for the harrassment value.

http://www.robinair.com/opmans/mvacsnap.pdf

http://www.autobodypro.com/safety/articles/0031.htm

http://hostingprod.com/@aa1car.com/library/tr497.htm

http://www.technicalchemical.com/msds/6000.pdf
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  #120  
Old 07-07-2005, 06:20 PM
LarryBible
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Diesel Giant,

It's time for you to do some homework. Freeze 12 consists of mostly 134, and another refrigerant that I don't recall. You can find this in one of the EPA documents.

Here is a link for you: http://www.macsw.org/macs.asp?mfurl=certify.html

After clicking on the link, download the Self Study Certification and training manual and go to page 23. It indicates Freeze 12 to be 80% 134 and 20% 142B. I have seen somewhere else in the past where it was a small portion of a flammable like isobutane, but it is not shown that way in this chart. There may be more than one blender of the stuff.

As a friendly recommendation, doing a little research for facts before making such statements as you have made in this thread will save you some embarrassment.

Have a great day,

Last edited by LarryBible; 07-07-2005 at 06:31 PM.
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