Well gang I found a black/maroon '87 SDL I'm considering adding to the fleet. First off, how many '87s were built? SDL owners are you pleased with it?

What should I check for to see if the head is cracked aside from yanking the valve cover (which I can't where it's at)? New cooling system parts?

Do these have the rear suspension like the 560s do?

Is there anyway to see if the timing chain is still together without yanking the valve cover? Just peer down through the oil fill plug?

GlowPlugs easier or more difficult to change compared to a 617 to change?



If you haven't really figured it out yet, the car has been sitting for a bit and am trying to find a diamond in the rough.

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I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]

I love my SDL. Some things are harder to do and some are easier. Glow plugs are harder to do as you may have to remove the intake manifold. Some here have mentioned using different wobble sockets, etc. to get to them but usually we like to pull the manifold since after all, all of us MB gearheads are masochists right? Actually, pulling the manifold is easy and it gives you an opportunity to clean out the EGR crud and have a better look around. The head number is by the #2 intake port, though it is hard to see with the manifold on.

To check for a cracked head, feel the upper rad. hose, if it's hard as a rock, it's cracked. Of course you can check for oil in coolant or vice-versa. You may want to check that it has the updated vacuum pump though they seem to have a minor death rate. When the pumps fail they can let the ball bearings into the timing case which can ultimately lead to a broken timing chain, $$$. I talked to the parts guy at the local dealer and he said he's never heard of it happening but people here have mentioned the possibility. Personally, I'm going to pull my vac. pump to make sure there are no real problems with the bearings. With a visual inspection they should be ok. Anyways, to check for the updated pump look for rivets going into the front cover. Originally they are flat there but the updated ones have 4 or 5 rivets in them. The updated ones have enclosed bearing. If this worries you, do a search for more details.

These have a spring suspension, unless equipped with SLS, VERY rare. It was an extremely expensive option and I've never heard of one having it from the factory though I do know of someone adapting it to their car.

I don't know how many were built in '87. I think like 8k maybe? That is a wild guess, or maybe that was for '86?

Regarding the timing chain, like other MB diesels these have a low timing chain failure rate. The chains usually fail from something causing it to lock up, like vacuum pump releasing its bearings or a guide rail breaking.

To be honest, if you've looked at other 603's for sale. You'll notice that there are more high mileage 603's for sale than 617's. I think that says something for the dependability. Don't worry about cracking the head. They crack if they're overheated. Besides, many engines will suffer severely if overheated, right? I know a 617 is a tank of an engine but the 603 is a different animal. I can't tell you how many 400k+ mile 603's I've seen. The one I almost bought before the one I have now had 467k miles and started right up at 30° outside. You'll see what I mean if you buy it. You'll love it. I can't say enough about my SDL. I also love the extended wheel base, it just completes the car. It adds to the ride. If you have any specific questions feel free to PM or email me. I've done work on many of the components on my SDL and would be glad to share.

Thanks
David

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2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

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Be very careful with these. They can literally eat you alive in parts if nothing has been replaced over the last 200K miles. Ask Hattie about this.

Even if the vehicle has had some repairs and maintenance (mine), you are still looking at $3K in the first year unless you are damn lucky.

It's a car that you will thorougly enjoy driving when compared to the five cylinder vehicles. In fact, other than the "big heavy feeling" there are no negative comparisons between this vehicle and the SD's.

You can't check for a cracked head until the vehicle has been running, warmed up to operating temperature, and then cooled overnight. Yanking the valve cover won't tell you anything. If it has been sitting for awhile, you won't have any way of knowing.

It has standard shocks and springs. It does not have the hydropneumatic suspension of the 560.

You probably can't see the timing chain through the oil fill plug. I take it by the question that you won't be able to start it??? If so, then you must heavily discount the price. Way too risky if it won't run.

Glow plugs are quite a bit more difficult because the intake manifold is on the driver's side above the glow plugs. Sometimes the manifold is removed to change certain plugs, although we do have some contortionists on here.



Realize, again, that parts are more costly than the 123 parts due to the limited number of vehicles sold. Carefully determine exactly what works and what needs attention. Check the front end carefully to see if any parts look replaced in the last five years or so. If not, you are looking at $1200 in parts alone.

Of course, the body is probably the most important consideration. It really makes no sense to purchase one of these and spend money on the mechanicals if the body has any rust whatsoever.

Good luck...............and be careful.

There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes-Benz

I own a 87 300d which uses the same 603 motor, one way to check for cracks is to squeeze the upper radiator hose and check for cold pressure, also look for oil in coolant and and white sweet smelling smoke with eng running, look at the front of the vacuum pump and see if it has for screws on it if not then u have the old version which is prone to failing and causing eng damage, check to see if a/c works, look for oil around the a/c hoses if you see any then you might have a leak there. leave the a/c running and check for air out of the center vents if not u might need the vacuum pods (pita) to replace, even if you get air it should be enough volume to cool the car and not a trickle which would mean that one or more pods might be bad. If the car has been sitting for a while then hold the stop lever down and crank it a few seconds at a time to try and bring up oil to the heads and pistons before start up. One thing that might scare you is a rattling noise or muted knock that sounds as if something is hitting the valve cover from inside but is really not that bad, it comes from the belt tensioner shock and is easy to check, just press down on it and the noise will stop, you might have to press hard but be very careful with fan since is turning about a half inch from your hand and can hurt you. You can probably use this noise to negotiate a better price once you make sure that the noise comes from the shock, just check it while the owner is away from the front of the car and tell him that the eng is knocking from somewhere and might need a rebuild and you'll be really taking a chance with it, if he already knows about it he'll just point it out to you most people dont even know the noise comes from there. the shock is under $40 bucks and easy to put on. I'm not trying to discourage you in any way, I know the 617 guys will jump on me for this but I think the 603 is one of the best diesel eng mercedes ever made - cracked head and all- and besides durability the only thing the 617's have on them is just an extra 14 digits. Smooth, powerful, refined , quiet and economical. I love you guys and I love the 617 but the 603 is in a class by itself

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87 300d Turbo 241K with original #14 head (blue)
87 300d Turbo 198K will run great again someday (silver)
84 300sd sold ( buyer drove it to Paraguay )

The last time this SDL was inspected was 2002 for 2003 so it ran for a while then sat somewhere for some reason (or could have still been driven, who knows)... Repo, something internal, etc. I won't really know until Saturday. I'm trying to get a CarFax on it currently.

It needs the HVAC stuff put back in among other little things (such as a radio harness) so the price of this should stay pretty low. The keys are there and it should be started on Saturday, but I was curious if I could reach my finger(s) in the oil fill hole and feel for the timing chain prior to going with an offer. Very few people like to have to deal with vehicles that need some wiring, espically old "stinky" diesels.

The car has a mere 213k on it, body is quite straight and the two doors I had a chance to open and close on the driver side shut properly. Interior is okay. Has either heated rear seats or the ones that recline in the back. When I have time to really go over it I'll know if it had any body damage, repaint, etc.

Much appreciated... and not to fret, the current 126 isn't going anywhere

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I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]

feeling for the chain wont do much for you since you cant determine chain stretch by just feeling it and if the car starts then you know the chain is there, personally I wouldn't buy it if I coundn't start it, its just to much to risk even on a 617.

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87 300d Turbo 241K with original #14 head (blue)
87 300d Turbo 198K will run great again someday (silver)
84 300sd sold ( buyer drove it to Paraguay )

Well at least I'll know it's not broken is what I was trying to get at by feeling for it. If it's broken, I'm not going to waste my time... I don't have the time to throw in a new chain.

If I know the chain is there and will just crank when the motor is stone cold it very well could just need a battery and glow plugs (or GP relay) like Klaus did... I know this 300SDL will need a battery for sure.

__________________
I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]

with just over 200k it could very well be a diamond in the rough, if they just negleted it towards the later part of that 200k then you could have a steal in your hands.

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87 300d Turbo 241K with original #14 head (blue)
87 300d Turbo 198K will run great again someday (silver)
84 300sd sold ( buyer drove it to Paraguay )

The power rear seat is the reclining seat that is in the 560's. The 560 rear seat is heated though. There is another member here with that option on his SDL. I'm currently working on installing it in my SDL. I took a heated power seat out of a euro 500SEL to adapt mine though. It's a lot of work since there are many things that have to be added or changed.

Thanks
David

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2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

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Ah so it's power reclining just not heated for the rear seat?

I'm going to bring some extra ATF, coolant, and motor oil with just in case... I plan to examine all this stuff prior to going up there to have the element of suprise on my side.

__________________
I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]

Both Power Reclining Rear Seat and Heated Seats (Front only or all Four) were options on the SDL. They were standard on most 560SEL's. I have the Power Reclining Rear seat but not Heated Seats in mine. It's an interesting novelty but of questionable value. I'd much rather have Heated Seats for the winter here in the frozen north

Most of the critical items to check have been mentioned, but take a look at the 'bellows' at the front of the Exhaust manifold. These often crack or leak over time and are a PITA to replace although not expensive.

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1991 M-B 560SEL Arctic White/Grey 99,000 Miles
1987 M-B 300SDL Ivory/Palomino 229,000 Miles (sold but never forgotten)
2006 Volvo XC70 Blue/Beige
1999 Porsche Boxster Arena Red/Savanna Beige
1986 Porsche 928S Goldweiss/Brown

Excellent news, the vehicle has been in Texas since 1987 until 2001 when the tags apparently expired. I highly doubt it's been anywhere else. Started life down in Houston and migrated to DFW in the mid 1990s.

and has had ONE owner.

Not a lemon, no water damage, etc. Numbers play out to be around 12000 miles per year.



I'm going out this afternoon if I have time and will try to sneak over and look over it provided no one is around.

__________________
I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]

One way you could check if the chain is integral is to turn the crank shaft with a ratchet and 25mm socket, I think it's 25mm, might be 27mm, anyway always turn it clockwise as you face the front of the engine, towards the drivers side, never backward! Look through the oil filler cap and see if the cam turns.

If you get it running, before the engine begins to build heat, within a minute or so, squeeze the upper radiator hose, you should not feel any pressure. If there is a cracked head, pressure will build immediately within the cooling system and the hoses will expand. Others here have mentioned if there is oil in the coolant reservoir as a bad sign, so I wont elaborate.

Keep us posted!

13,830 300SDL's were produced during model years 1986 and 1987.

5,509 were produced in '87.

8,321 were produced in '86.

Those are the official numbers worldwide(though I think the markets were limited to US and Japan).

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1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

I think I found the problem! But I need a pic of the radiator, fan, and shroud if anyone has a digicam I'll be eternally grateful. I believe it to be quite simple.

It's still an R12 system, needs a PS flush, motor is decently clean, full of oil (just changed before gotten rid of according to windshield sticker), trans fluid looks red but with a tint of brown... needs to be serviced, needs brake flush, coolant in spill overtank looks mkay, ... we'll see.

__________________
I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]