after running the engine a couple more times and getting it up to temp and all, i rechecked pump timing via the inspection hole. it wasn't set at 5* ATDC as i had originaly thought. it's set at exactly 0*... so does that explains the black smoke at idle/part throttle?
btw, the car starts up fine, the key has barely reached the end travel and it starts right up... indication of good compression?

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85 190E 2.3(SOLD)
86 230E (-->300D) sold
87 300D (-->300TD) sold
68 250S w/ a 615 and manual tranny (RIP)
87 300TD (SOLD)
95 S280 "The KRAKEN" (Turbo 2.9 602 transplant) traded
86 190E 2.3... current project

I have not played with the timing on the 603, but what you are describing sounds like 15 degrees early, correct?

I'd be surprised that it runs as well as you have described with this much advance.

Smoke and rough running are certainly in the cards with this much timing error.

Be sure you have checked it properly before adjusting it.

Why would it have advanced by 15 degrees if the IP has not been removed and you carefully marked the chain and the cam sprocket prior to reinstallation??

You need to figure out what has occurred prior to going forward. You can get FUBAR with the timing on these pretty darn quick.

i may have slipped when i installed a new timing chain... i wasn't prepared for the sudden jerking of the chain when i rotated the engine the first few times... it could have been that... when the chain looses tension when installing, does the timing usually advance? i mean, when newbies like me commit that mistake what usually happens? advances timing?

i edited my previos post just as you were replying

__________________

85 190E 2.3(SOLD)
86 230E (-->300D) sold
87 300D (-->300TD) sold
68 250S w/ a 615 and manual tranny (RIP)
87 300TD (SOLD)
95 S280 "The KRAKEN" (Turbo 2.9 602 transplant) traded
86 190E 2.3... current project

The chain loses tension between the camshaft and the crankshaft, after the camshaft. The tension between the crankshaft and the IP and the camshaft, on the downward travel of the chain, should have been maintained. I am assuming that the chain never came off the crankshaft sprocket and never came off the IP timer sprocket, correct?

If, for any reason, the chain jumped a tooth anywhere in the process, then, all bets are off.

If the IP timing is 15 degrees off, I would not do anything else until you check the camshaft timing and determine if it is correct.

I remind you that there is significant danger in getting FUBAR if you proceed without knowing exactly what your current situation is.

specifically, if it has slipped too far you may make contact with valves to pistons so proceed with caution. this means no use of the starter until you are sure of the timing.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

here's another update, before permanently installing the chain i made sure that cam to crank timing was spot on.

anyway, i fired up the engine to check if indeed the pump was too far off...
guess what happened? it fired right up after a few tries. there was lots of smoke at the exhaust in the beginning, but it thinned out considerably after the engine warmed up, and when i ran the car a few yards the smoke again seemed to disappear at idle.

It start right up everytime, even when left to sit overnight. In fact i drove the car to the mall to get something and it drove like before. though i do see some black puffs of smoke from time to time, particularly when accelerating.

i tried to adjust IP timing yesterday: here's what happened, when i rotated the pump away from the block(clockwise, retard?) the smoke from the rear visibly thickened, when i rotated it inboard(to advance?) same thing happened, it seems the original setting was the optimal setting... weird? This is a non-turbo 603, maybe IP timing is different?

i'm sure the pointer at the crank is at OT, with the cam tower to cam mark is perfectly alligned, looking through the hole in the IP i can see the TAB... but its supposed to be at 15*atdc, how come my engine is running? though with a bit of smoke... and how come retarding IP timing (IP clockwise) only worsens the smoke, when it should be the (close to) ideal setting.

the haynes manual states it should indeed be at 15* atdc, it covers both turbo and non models, though it didn't differentiate the 2

__________________

85 190E 2.3(SOLD)
86 230E (-->300D) sold
87 300D (-->300TD) sold
68 250S w/ a 615 and manual tranny (RIP)
87 300TD (SOLD)
95 S280 "The KRAKEN" (Turbo 2.9 602 transplant) traded
86 190E 2.3... current project

Did you read somewhere, or someone tell you that it must be at 15 atdc?

Being non-turbo, I have thought it might be possible timing may be different. I'd just set it to where it smokesm less and runs best. In time and use, it may smoke even less, mine did. Injectors improperly balanced and have poor spray pattern can also yield smoke!

yep, almost everyone said to set it at 15* atdc, the book also, but i think everyone has turbo...

does it make sense that a nonturbo would have different timing specs? i would think so... anybody confirm this?

i will have to have the injectors balanced some time...

why do you think the engine will smoke less in time? i sure hope so, probably has something to do with the valves seating eventually?

what causes smoke anyway? too much fuel? is this the only reason with diesels? it can never have too much air right?

__________________

85 190E 2.3(SOLD)
86 230E (-->300D) sold
87 300D (-->300TD) sold
68 250S w/ a 615 and manual tranny (RIP)
87 300TD (SOLD)
95 S280 "The KRAKEN" (Turbo 2.9 602 transplant) traded
86 190E 2.3... current project

first off,

thanks to everyone who took the time to reply to my posts, and sorry if i asked too many newbie questions.

anyway, for those who don't know...i went through the ordeal of having my 603 non-turbo cylinder head warp due to a major overheating incident (faulty gauge!). FIX THOSE GAUGES!

With the help of this forum, i gathered enough courage to do all the work(except the machining, and valve, valve guide installation) myself from the disassembly, to reinstallation of the cylinderhead.

The car now runs great, its a lot quieter than before the incident, probably because i now have the same nozzles in all 6 injectors, and i now have new valve guides and valves, and timing chain.

When i first started it up i had smoke issues, i though that maybe my IP timing was out, i stated earlier that the IP timing mark through the inspection hole lined up with the OT mark at the crank, which is 15* advanced. This is still the case... but the car runs fine with this setting... non-turbo setting?
I have yet to have it professionaly timed...
Anyhow, after having used the car everyday since i got it running, and messing with the valve cover breather routing(disconnected it from the intake)... the smoke seemed to disappear, probably because the valves have set? and the lifters have been thoroughly primed?... it smokes just a bit during hard acceleration though.
I'm quite pleased with the results to be honest, i didn't botch my first major engine undertaking...
this just proves that Mercedes engines CAN be worked with even by noobies like me. ... WITH the supervision of the GURUS in this board ofcourse.

More power guys! thanks from the bottom of my sump!

__________________

85 190E 2.3(SOLD)
86 230E (-->300D) sold
87 300D (-->300TD) sold
68 250S w/ a 615 and manual tranny (RIP)
87 300TD (SOLD)
95 S280 "The KRAKEN" (Turbo 2.9 602 transplant) traded
86 190E 2.3... current project