oil cooler line sliced
 

84 300sd
AC belt sliced the oil cooler line. I pulled over when I saw the pressure drop but may have been too late. I bought a new cooler line and had it running in the garage. I drove out to go around the block and it died. I can't get it to crank. Tried a jump and tried to make sure vaccuum lines were back in place (at least one was pulled apart near the oil filter when I was dismantling the old cooler line).

I've got it on the street tonight and will start calling around tomorrow for help, but I'm sure it's pretty bad. Body is fairly good and all electronics work amazingly well, but I can't sink thousands into this vehicle. I suppose I need confirmation, but assuming the worst, any ideas about what I should do?

Greasecar kit is installed and working (it died on vegetable oil, which is maybe the way it wanted to go). Thanks to forum members for all the help in determining the other problems I've fixed in the car (new alternator and neutral safety switch).
Brian

If you shut it down right when you saw the pressure drop I'd think it'd be ok still....as it wasn't run with 0 oil circulating. Added to that, you had it running, was it running normally? If so I'd suspect the engine is ok but something else is amiss and preventing it from starting. An inspection/compression check could verify that the engine is still ok. You said it won't crank? as in it tries to but can't? You could try turning the engine manually with a wratchet on the crankshaft bolt.........I'd definatley investigate further.......

When you started it in your garage, did you look to see if the oil gauge showed pressure?

I'd be suprised if you got it turned off before engine damage occured.

It doesn't take long for the engine to pump out 5 liters of oil and engine brg damage to occur.

While I have not experienced this personally, my understanding was this happens when the motormounts are colapsed and the belt is the wrong length. So the compressor is kicked over farther than normal to tighten it.



Michael

was running, or at least walking
 

pawosd,
I shut down as soon as I saw the pressure was at 0-- not sure when that was in the oil -loss scenario. Yes, it was running, and seemed to idle fairly nicely. Busy, the presure showed 2 in the garage, which was about normal for this vehicle at idle. When I pressed the gas, it went up to 3, so I took it out for a spin. The car simply died one block away (going up a hill).

When I try to start it, the engine gave one, two, or sometimes three "ruh's" (usually one) and then nothing. Jumping had no effect.
Thanks,
Brian

You must realize that you have two separate issues.

You have confirmed that it has oil pressure of 2.0 at idle.
Therefore, it is extremely unlikely that you damaged the bearings to a point where additional clearance is now present.

So, the issue is to get it started again. I have a suspicion that the WVO is playing a part in this. See if you can get a can of diesel fuel and attempt to prime the system with diesel fuel. Then get it running properly on diesel fuel.

You can't make any determination on the condition of the engine until it is running again. And, we already know that it will run.

The WVO should have nothing to do with the car not turning over at all. If the engine spins over but doesn't fire, then it could be playing a role. If the starter won't turn the engine over, that can't hardly be fuel related.

Was there any other indications of a problem before it died (strange noises, no power, etc)? Maybe you have a couple different problems, for instance starter/electrical system problem in addition to the fuel problem.

Brian's right. If you had severe bearing damage you would have lower oil pressure. Regarding not starting, you said it only spun over a couple times then wouldn't spin at all? How about trying a junkyard starter to at least rule that out? Try smacking the solenoid with a large metal bar and see if that gets the starter to spin. Are you basically saying it seems as though the engine is locked up? Why not either put a wrench on the P/S pulley and try to spin the engine? Turn clockwise when facing the engine of course. You should disconnect the fuel line right before the in-line filter and place a can of diesel there and see if it will run that for fuel. We don't want to start getting mechanical and fuel problems tangled up.

Thanks
David

Clarify this please:

Does the starter fail to turn the engine, whatsoever?

What's the condition and age of the battery?

What's the condition of the cables?

diesel question; milwaukee mechanics
 

The car died on WVO initially (when the cooler line broke), but I switched over and it was idling for about 20 minutes on diesel before I took it out of the garage. That should have been enough time to flush the system, I would think.

I could see the car stalling related to WVO, but the cranking once and giving up would be different-- just hard to imagine putting a starter in at this point.

On that note, does anyone know of a mechanic in the Milwaukee area who would not lose it when I bring in a car that has been converted to WVO? I might finally be way over my head with this car.
Thanks,
Brian

Brian


Clarify this please:

Does the starter fail to turn the engine, whatsoever?
I believe it starts to crank, but it only does it once or twice and then quits.

What's the condition and age of the battery?
Battery is new

What's the condition of the cables?
Cables seem OK

Thanks,
B

Do you happen to have a 27mm deep socket to rotate the engine by hand, using the crankshaft bolt?

I'm curious to see if this engine is rotating freely. You should be able to turn it with a 1/2" socket wrench using a decent amount of arm strength from underneath the vehicle.

If you cannot turn it with this wrench, then things are starting to look bleak.

It would be unlikely that the starter has given up the ghost, simultaneous with your broken cooler lines. Too coincedental.

Worst case, if only you were around here, there are four 617 motors at the local junkyard in cars... a 123, two 116s, and a 126. :( They were $40 + $35 core last week.

This makes me think that I really need to change those oil cooler lines here ASAP, I wasn't aware they were that vital. Sure oil runs through them but I didn't know they were under all the pressure.

X-man,

The 617 oil pump is high pressure and HIGH volume. Much of the excess oil goes through the cooler and back into the pan.

I would tell him he needs to put a wrench on the front crankshaft bolt and turn it clockwise 1-2 revolutions. I bet his will not do this-the engine probably spun a bearing or something siezed.

It is critical to have the correct length belt on the A/C system-enought said. The oil cooler lines ussually give a sign of being wet or slight leakage before they break. I'd suspect that any of these cars with orginal lines being 20+ years old, regardless of mileage are getting close to replacement.

Just check them everytime you change your oil or inspect the car.

Hey Brian- where do you go and see theses benz's(?).

Michael

:eek: Mine are seeping, perhaps I should get more serious about changing them here ASAP.

I am so paranoid that when my lower line began weeping around the crimp I went: :eek: :eek: and two weeks later I bought: motor mounts, two brand new oil cooler lines at the dealership, and a set of motor mount bolts, and a bunch of tools (LOT) to do the job. I found out that my lower nipple on the oil cooler was spun out, so I headed on ebay and bought a brand new Behr one for $160 less than retail, finally got it, installed it and was all set and good to go. I tried to see how much it would take to destroy the old hoses once I had them off....and I could not break them out of the crimps....they were still extremely strong :rolleyes: Those hoses are also VERY thick, you can saw half ways through them before you even get any oil leaking out....needless to say it was a heck of a job but I am glad I did it as now I don't have to worry about it for a looooong time. I also have no A/C belt :D so I don't have to worry about that either. :D

When my oil cooler line went, it was only a matter of seconds before the engine locked up. I saw the oil coming from under the hood, and before I could reach the key I heard that evil sound of metal on metal. If you had it running I would suspect that the issue lies somwhere other than the bearings. You would have noticed quite a difference in the engine if you had started it with a bad set....

Well that's good to know! But I still need to replace them here pretty quick knowing what I know now. :)

crankshaft bolt... then what?
 

Thanks all for your help, especially Brian. I will try the crankshaft bolt test soon-- I was just happy to get it into the garage with a little help from my family. I thought I heard the sound of metal on metal when it first happened, but I did get it going and even when it gave up on me, I don't believe I heard any terrible sounds.

One other issue-- the new oil cooler hose (upper) got a bit of a kink in the rubber part when I installed it. Maybe this has something to do with the failure, which would be par for the course that I got it home in OK shape and then installed a part and then broke it.

So let's say it's bad... then what? I have an extra spot in my garage for another month or so, so I could either take it apart or try to sell it whole. Anybody have a similar situation that worked out well somehow? I took about 12 hours to replace the alternator last summer, so I'm not exactly going to be a guy who drops a new engine in.

Thanks again,
Brian

sounds
 

as if you may have twisted the line. this is easy to do if the line is stuck in the end which is supposed to rotate. if it is twisted that may have broken it.

do the manual crank over test and in the mean time hope for the best.

no crank
 

I tried and tried to get the 27mm bolt to budge, but no deal. All I get now when I try the ignition is a loud "chk." I'm assuming this is the death knell. If no one has any other hopeful ideas, I'll be shopping for a new diesel next week... I saw an 82 300SD for sale locally. Is that similar enough to have a lot of common parts with my 84 300SD?
Thanks for your help with my car.
Brian

If you were using a 1/2 inch ratchet and all the force you can muster, and are attempting to turn the engine clockwise, and it will not rotate, this is probably a situation where a bearing has spun or seized. I'm sorry for this unfortunate situation. :(

It's hard to hear rod noise over the diesel tap..

Best of luck finding another W126. I've seen some nice ones go cheap as they are now older.

Michael

Donor found... now what?
 

I went out and found an 82 300SD donor vehicle, but it's not exactly in good shape itself. $500, engine seems to leak more oil than mine did, and (surprise, surprise) the oil cooler line is nearly sliced through

What are the steps from here?

1. Buy the rusty, broken tie-rod, bad-brakes vehicle and try to fix it up with all the parts from my car
2. Buy the other car and get a specific part or parts replaced on my old engine... any ideas what this would take?
3. Get the whole engine from the new one dropped into my existing vehicle

I've obviously got no business trying to do any of this myself, so if you have experience with labor costs, let me know (I'll do a search on the forum, too). The 82 is similar enough to the 84 non-California engine, right?-- it looks pretty much the same under the hood.

Thanks everyone,
Brian

What to do...

You need an engine with good compression across the cylinders- 350 psi min. I'd look for a rust bucket which was sloowww, but started quick and has reciepts of regular oil changes. Then I would put a good engine in my good body. If your body is not excellent, I'd junk it and get a very nice example and be happy.

You can pull the injectors and run a compression test pretty easy- just need some injectorline return hose for replacing everything. Valves being out of adjustment can give low compression.

Those are the finding it yourself option. You can buy one from a high-end recycler with a warrentee and compression readings -last time I looked was $1500. Which while sounding like more, might be less than getting a bad engine and doing this all again.


Michael

Please stop for a minute.

You are undertaking a very large project. The labor involved to do 1,2, or 3 is significant. To justify any of the aforementioned options, you must be sure that your end result is a very good to excellent vehicle. Otherwise, it makes absolutely no sense. In fact, it may not make any sense anyway. You can find a pristine 300SD for about $6500.00 and it won't need anything. Keep this in mind.

So, option 1:

This makes no sense unless the body is immaculate on the "new vehicle". You stated that it is rusty. Why spend $2000 to move parts onto a rusty vehicle??

So, option 2:

You would not use any parts from the old engine to repair your engine. If you have your engine rebuilt, you will use new parts. The cost will be anywhere from $3K to $6K, depending on how much gets done. This doesn't make a whole lot of sense, either, unless you have a pristine 300 SD.

So, option 3:

You need to determine the condition of the "new" engine. A compression test is mandatory. If the engine is a very good to excellent engine, then the cost to swap engines, approximately $1500 to $2000, makes some sense. But, even this expenditure must be weighed against the resulting conditon of the 300SD when you are finished. It's still a lot of money to put into an old vehicle, unless it's in very good shape.


None of these decisions are easy. However, if you are adamant about fixing this one, and can't consider a replacement 300SD in good to excellent condition ($4K-$7K), then option 3 is the only sensible option.

Bad starter
 

I don’t think you killed it put the car up on ramps use a floor jack then slide the ramps under the tire, use a breaker bar a 27mm deep dish socket and use your foot to try and rotate the engine. Engines that seize from oil starvation do not start and run at a later date then decide to seize at an even later date. I have purchased more cars that needed new engines when in fact it was 1 a bad battery 2 bad battery cables 3 bad starter and your car is displaying the symptoms of one of those problems. Take an hour and try to turn it over with the socket again but realize if you have a good engine with high compression and lets throw in a jammed starter for fun it can be very hard to rotate it by hand use your foot and push as hard as you can. Of course if your not too far away and you don’t mind me spending an hour changing the battery starter and cables I will give you a hundred bucks for it and drive her home I just love the looks on PO faces when after buying the car I swap batteries and drive there car away.
Dave S

I believe that your car is a model that can be push started, if so, try push starting the car. Detailed instructions on push starting, should be in your owner's manual.

Phil

To push/tow start it, get it going about 15-20mph and then put the gear selector into "S"(or "2") with the key in the run position, this will rotate the engine and it should start when being pulled in this setting, or at the very least it will rotate the engine and tell you if it still rotates/is not seized.

reports of demise misunderestimated?
 

Well, after all your posts and other threads, I decided to try the starter and battery tests. Nothing seemed to work, and then I smacked the battery contacts with a hammer just for kicks. Then she started up. (Never did get the 27mm bolt to crank, and I even bent the handle of the wrench).

However, the same problem still exists, just now I can get it started again.

The car can idle OK. Last week I tried to take it for a test drive when it died and all the threads ensued. Today, however, I just revved the engine in the garage. At 3000 RPM it began to make a loud intermittant squeaking or chirping noise and then promptly died again.

Any ideas which two (or more) parts are rubbing together to cause this problem, and is the price for fixing it any less than what I believed my options to be earlier?

Thanks for your ideas,
Brian

The pistons grabbed the cylinder walls.

Been reading this thread and wondered....

Anyone ever seen a device that would shut down the engine if it sensed low oil pressure?

Maybe an aftermarket item?

Of course, it could be a safety issue, if it shut down just as you were crossing the RR tracks.

Would it even work, meaning could it shut down the engine fast enough?

add some armor
 

Seems that all metal oil cooler lines at least might be better than metal ones with rubber ends that sit next to an AC belt. If you have a model like mine, there is enough clearance to strap something stronger on the belt side of the rubber hose so the belt would hit that instead of cutting through the rubber.

I'm sure pistons grabbing cylinder walls is not a positive relationship.

Thanks,
Brian

Some one her did it
 

Some one in a thread on this board talks briefly about making a catastrophic oil loss indictor possibly that also shuts down the engine in such a case. I just tried a quick search and did not find it but I am pretty sure the key words are catastrophic oil loss if you can find the thread you could ask him how he did it. He did say it was quite difficult though. I just looked some more using those key words and found a few posts including one about a commercially available unit http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/110449-low-oil-pressure-alarm.html?highlight=catastrophic
Dave S

It will live on
 

Now you need to do a leak down test and a compression test to see where you stand. Are you sure it was a metal sound and not belts squeaking I am still fairly confident you have not killed the engine but you have multiple unrelated and possible related but not fatal problems. You may have destroyed the cam lobes on the IP when you ran out of oil or damaged the high pressure seals but that too is unlikely but I think more likely than serious engine damage. First failure is usually the starting system IE battery cables starter and those often all go at about the same time. Now you appear to have a fuel problem trouble shoot it one problem at a time if the engine starts and idles it is probably ok but if I were you I would do a compression test and a leak down test. You can do this in less than 3 hours and that is taking into consideration your limited mechanical experience then you will have a very detailed report on your engines condition. If that checks out go at it as a fuel problem. Regarding replacement engines most pull it your self yards will let you bring in an air compressor which allows you to do a leak down test. You find a clean wrecked car that looks like it was cared for and focus your time on those do a leak down test and you know you are getting a solid engine for what is often $79 includes every thing all accessories so you don’t have to spend a lot of time swapping parts. You will find it is very easily done to swap engines it is a very straight forward job with only about 20 bolts to be removed the hardest part is properly putting your trans mission on the new engine with out causing any oil leaks. A pair of garden sheers makes for quick removel of the donor engine from the junk yard for cutting hoses in stead of unbolting every thing. A first timer can accomplish the whole project with a friend in 2 weekends pretty easily provided you have a few pick your part type junk yards in your area to find a donor engine from. If psfred can talk me thru installing the wrong transmission in a euro Mercedes that the correct transmission was just not available for because they made less than 3 thousand world wide and none in the states. I think we can talk you thru a engine swap avoiding the common mistakes and doing things the hard way when there is a much easier way. But again I don’t think your engine is shot you just have multiple coincidental problems and possible a cooked IP but even that is a remote possibility. Go slow be analytical follow the trouble shooting matrixes to the letter assume nothing except seized engines don’t run and that is not even true. When I was 14 a friend and I each put in $25 on a Toyota corolla with a frozen engine it would not turn over when towed a lot of liquid wrench and a few days soaking and not only did it turn when towed it started. We drove that car for almost 6 months with out our parent’s knowledge when finally we hit a very large oak tree we were lucky to sustain minor injuries and very pissed parents. But I said it in an earlier post this engine is not dead a compression and leak down test are in order before spending any real dollars but now you have a fuel problem in my opinion and the fact you could not turn it by hand is good Singh It indicates high compression like 400LBS per cylinder.
DHS